I know of like 3-4 people that were demoted from contrib. It's not that unheard of considering I rarely pay attention to stuff like that and I still can count 3-4 off the top of my head with time where i'm barely uploading for months at a time.
Posted under General
richie said:
It's not a justification, it's stating a fact. Now, the other question is if such result was intended or not.
If - supposedly - not then my point is the current system simply doesn't work.
Again, that's the problem. No, I don't think such an approver is intentionally expanding the scope of artwork or even intentionally sabotaging the approval process, because either one would be giving them way too much credit. If they don't know the impact of what they're doing, despite being cited by other Janitors about it, that's another problem with them personally. Some higher-level user that continues to rubberstamp Approvals on posts while ignoring warnings from other users is just as bad if not worse than the uploaders with many Negatives/just careless uploaders that still get to throw up weaker material because the former keeps approving their posts, essentially giving them a free pass.
That's also why I wouldn't suggest any system-wide changes to accommodate to or justify either of the two above issues while leaving them as they are. That's really not needed when the main problem involves a minority Appover and other Approvers don't think he's doing the job properly, while making theirs harder, and don't think he should continue to have that role.
You won't change it by pointing fingers on a case by case basis.
On a site where so much information and numbers are presented for people to pull up whenever they want, sort in a lot of ways, and come to conclusions on, pointing fingers on a case-by-case basis is actually very viable. If you're talking about going beyond pointing fingers and taking action based on that information, then that would make some actual changes.
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richie said:
And after these 3 days finally comes guess-who? to approve it. If you're lucky enough.
On the other hand such and much worse posts happen to be posted by contrib+ and nobody cares about it.
I'll have you know that 'nobody cares about it' is exactly due to the same 'guess-who?' simply stamping approvals on any flagged junk uploaded on contributor level. Just food for thought as to why some may not bother. And flagging things twice on my own, just because of a wonky approver, feels a bit unethical in my book and makes me look like the persistent asshole, while I simply can't agree with his judgment (and outright deleting things would cause far higher a storm than it's worth). And factually I am treated like an asshole for even sending things into the queue by a nice fraction of userbase and battling over flags and explaining the same thing over and over and over again (mostly to same people too) simply gets old and slowly deters from trying to reason or do anything. And then getting all the effort killed by 'him', without a single word why. I'm supposed to write essays for flags, while over-queue crap uploads and silent approvals on trash are ok. And I just think neither of those are ok in those cases (before you stuff words in my mouth that I want a 'reason' line for approvals, no I don't. But when you flag something, try explaining it [am poor at this, I'll give anyone that] and then get nope'd without a word...? Feels more rude than me and I'm almost completely powerless against it). And this thread is a result of me not being the only one, though without the flag aspect for probably everyone else. What other way to make the 'head' of this site aware it IS an issue, other than giving him a thread of discussion, while also keeping it mature?
And unfortunately, there aren't many other options than pointing fingers at this state. Specific people are responsible for this.
I'll admit to not paying attention to the queue recently. Kinda busy with other things and I'd rather not approve things without a keen eye on them. One doing exactly that is too much already.
It really doesn't help that the red border on an image that wasn't drawn with crayon in a schoolhouse immediately brings down the hammer of terrible argumentative excuses and a swarm of inappropriately used appeals. My only solution to that so far is to wait until an image has passed far enough off subscriptions and the numerical page for it to be "forgotten" by the general masses and hope nobody finds it and bumps a comment on it.
Though there isn't an easy way to solve that issue (other than maybe hide the flagged status to only those that can approve it, which I'm sure was discussed back when the flagger name removal was brought up), it's a big part of what keeps me from making the effort to go through and re-reflag things that ought not to have been approved repeatedly as mentioned above. Causing a riot is one way to push the issue through, sure, but I'd rather not be loathed more than I already might be.
Kikimaru said:
That goes both ways.
Complaining that "certain" users like art you don't is downright myopic.
Assuming that every piece of art and 'art' *must* be uploaded and then accepted with joy on Danbooru, without anyone voicing even slightest discontent over it, is not otherwise.
I like post #1052229. And I similarly think it should have never found it's way here, simply because it's drawn absolutely terribly.
Maybe I should stop wasting time on someone who allegedly 'literally doesn't care'.
Log said:
Who cares if someone immediately appeals a post that was flagged? They're just wasting their appeal. It's never bothered me seeing some shit both flagged and appealed at the same time in the mod queue and I would be surprised if any of the other mods were.
Probably nobody. Didn't mention it to make any kind of point besides that it's silly and a bit entertaining to watch ignorance be flounced. The shitstorm of harassment was the focus with a bit of a hint towards the inevitable "things worse than this have been approved" excuse, which fits the general theme in this thread.
Kikimaru said:
Complaining that "certain" users like art you don't is downright myopic.
It's what this site is based around to begin with. A minority representing the majority on what is and isn't of acceptable quality and style. One doesn't get past the basic user levels without noticing that (I hope). If enough people are making a ruckus about a part of the system (be it uploader or approver) not representing the majority to give the problem credence, it ought to be fixed. The decision then comes down to whether we fix it by upholding the standards established before the problem arose or by becoming 4chan with tag search.
I've yet to see a thread on policy or personnel change actually result in anything more than another thread sinking to the sea floor, so either way would be interesting to me.
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Kikimaru said:
That goes both ways.
Complaining that "certain" users like art you don't is downright myopic.
As someone who has repeatedly spoken as though he doesn't recognize what the uploading criteria are, in spite of repeatedly having to be reminded of them, (that, or you're honestly just trolling by deliberately going out of your way to upload every single type of banned material from guro to furry to grotesque proportions to nothing remotely anime-related to illegible scribbles,) that statement comes across as a downright narcissistic denial of reality.
In fact, your first response to this thread makes perfectly clear you know who's responsible for a bulk of this strife on a user-level.
NWSiaCB said:
As someone who has repeatedly spoken as though he doesn't recognize what the uploading criteria are, in spite of repeatedly having to be reminded of them, (that, or you're honestly just trolling by deliberately going out of your way to upload every single type of banned material from guro to furry to grotesque proportions to nothing remotely anime-related to illegible scribbles,) that statement comes across as a downright narcissistic denial of reality.
In fact, your first response to this thread makes perfectly clear you know who's responsible for a bulk of this strife on a user-level.
Guro & furry have been un-banned for years now.
I've only recently started being "involved" in danbooru more than just searching pictures, and I'm mostly of the same opinion as Wypatroszony and OOZ662 - have been since I read the discussion on post #1813917 from the comments when post #1935902 was flagged. Noticed that the described "trend" seemed to happen a lot when posts get flagged, which is kind of annoying, really. People just immediately using the appeal system and/or flaming the flagger because heavens forbid someone sends art that they don't find up to standards back in moderation queue.
Later flagged post #1950284 myself as well - admittedly didn't cause much of a "shitstorm" though, but did follow a similar sort of trend with appeals and stuff. (Those two posts which, by the way, I still really disagree with their approval, since the artist has demonstrated that they can draw much better than doodly sketches. Feels like they only get approved because they're punny. But well, I digress.)
Anyway. Bottom line is, I agree with Wypatroszony and OOZ662.
Log said:
Furry has not been unbanned at any point. There's a difference between "has fur" and the shit that gets posted on e621, why people ignore that this is the case I don't know.
Presumably, because he's been getting away with it... Furry indeed has plenty of yiffing posts filling up the tag.
Which, honestly, is kind of the point of this thread.
NWSiaCB said:
Once again, you seem not to understand the rules.
They are not unbanned. Some guro has been allowed, but only within certain limitations... which you reoutinely ignore.
user:Kikimaru guro
What the fuck are you talking about?
Log said:
Furry has not been unbanned at any point. There's a difference between "has fur" and the shit that gets posted on e621, why people ignore that this is the case I don't know.
NWSiaCB said:
Presumably, because he's been getting away with it... Furry indeed has plenty of yiffing posts filling up the tag.
Which, honestly, is kind of the point of this thread.
I also find it laughable you're complaining about a tag which makes up 0.1% of total posts (if even).
Kikimaru said:
I also find it laughable you're complaining about a tag which makes up 0.1% of total posts (if even).
So what proportion of the forum should be made up of banned images before it's appropriate to point out they're banned?
Some people have been posting things like Teemo or whatever that can get a furry tag and be OK, provided it isn't porn, but post #1982276 is clearly the sort of thing Danbooru has always banned.
Kikimaru said:
user:Kikimaru guro
What the fuck are you talking about?
Well, we can start with a couple like these:
Honestly, I'm not even sure what you're arguing here, as you just attempted to deny a statement that you routinely upload guro by showing off how much guro you uploaded.
Is your defense is that if you occasionally actually follow the rules, if only by accident, then everything you do should be permissible?
I never understood why post #746556 got deleted.