Donmai

Pointless Pools

Posted under General

NWF Renim

I guess I don't really see it so much as a meme pool, but as a collection of images referencing the recent announcement as a playable character. It's a pool-able concept involving a specific event, is not a good taggable concept, only a portion of those under it would fall under other pools like pool #1823 (Wow, That Was Fast ), and down the road when more of the game is released searches like double_dealing_character izayoi_sakuya will quite likely be filled with many other images involving her that are unrelated to the topic trying to be encapsulated here.

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S1eth

Requesting resolution of topic #7842 for
pool #5271 - Touhou - Mages Guild of Gensoukyou

and these pools, which are basically the same concept, character-combination pools to circumvent the 3 character tag limit:
pool #5110 - Touhou - The Neko Sisters = chen toramaru_shou kaenbyou_rin
pool #6793 - Touhou - Tengu Team = shameimaru_aya inubashiri_momiji himekaidou_hatate

UnderneathTheWaves said:
pool #6947
Touhou - Houraisan Kaguya - The Canon Version

And any statement on this? Because it's the most ridiculous pool I've seen in a while for many reasons

1. a pool for any image of a character without fanon memes or otherwise made-up personalities? That's bascially everything
2. the pool definition assumes that these "memes" make up a large percentage of Kaguya images. This is not the case.
3. collecting images of these "memes" is much more useful
4. we already have pool #2813, so we don't need a pool for houraisan_kaguya -pool:2813
5. there's not enough canon information about her to form a proper personality to begin with
6. the only way to really show the peronality in an image is via dialogue
7. therefore, the pool is basically a collection of houraisan_kaguya chartags:1 rating:s, all ~1400 of them.

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game2009

NWF_Renim said:

I guess I don't really see it so much as a meme pool, but as a collection of images referencing the recent announcement as a playable character. It's a pool-able concept involving a specific event, is not a good taggable concept, only a portion of those under it would fall under other pools like pool #1823 (Wow, That Was Fast ), and down the road when more of the game is released searches like double_dealing_character izayoi_sakuya will quite likely be filled with many other images involving her that are unrelated to the topic trying to be encapsulated here.

And when Sanae or Youmu returns as a playable character in Touhou 15, there's going to be a pool dedicated to such...

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NWF Renim

game2009 said:

And when Sanae or Youmu returns as a playable character in Touhou 15, there's going to be a pool dedicated to such...

That's fine with me, and we can wait a year or two for that game to be released for it to become a discussion point if it does happen.

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user 393786

Hi, I'm the creator of the Kaguya Canon pool (pool #6947). I don't agree with the idea of it being a pointless pool.
About the argument given against it:

1. a pool for any image of a character without fanon memes or otherwise made-up personalities? That's bascially everything

Not really. The definition didn't say anything against made-up personalities or situations, they only had to not be against canon information.

2. the pool definition assumes that these "memes" make up a large percentage of Kaguya images. This is not the case.

I agree is not the case. Actually this point contradicts what you just said. First you just said they were "bascially everything" but now you said they are not a large percentage. Which one is it?

3. collecting images of these "memes" is much more useful

Why is more useful? If you mean your next point...

4. we already have pool #2813, so we don't need a pool for houraisan_kaguya -pool:2813

This point is making the assumption that everything that does not belong to the "neet princess" pool belongs in the "canon version" pool. But that is not true. There are lots of images that are not about NEET kaguya and also don't fit with the canon pool.

5. there's not enough canon information about her to form a proper personality to begin with

Again, the pool didn't forbid made-up personalities. The rule was only that they should not conflict with canon information.
The pool description had a series of points based on canon information about kaguya, and then it said
"Any depiction of Kaguya where these traits are emphasized qualifies for this pool." Any made-up personality is ok as long they respect that.

6. the only way to really show the peronality in an image is via dialogue

Really? I think this image: post #721856 show us a lot of personality, even without dialog.
But again, this pool is not against made-up personalities, as long they don't conflict with canon details.

7. therefore, the pool is basically a collection of houraisan_kaguya chartags:1 rating:s, all ~1400 of them.

Not at all. This image is one example of pic that does not fit on the NEET pool nor the canon pool: post #1416993 And like that image, there are a lot that also don't fit.

I don't see this pool having less right to exist than the NEET pool.

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Toks

chris__l said:

If I'm understanding the long description of that pool right, you want it to be for "ladylike" depictions of Kaguya.

But that probably includes more than half the images of Kaguya on the site. How is that useful?

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user 393786

@Toks: Well I see this situation for instance: not everyone who likes touhou actually play the games. Even if they do, some of them may have never played th08.

There could people who is not aware of how canon kaguya is supposed to be and think is actually a NEET character, seen the all non-NEET images (canon-compatible or not) only like a "cuter" version of her.

Of course, that is not a terrible bad thing or anything, (fandom and memes are fun after all!) and also I'm not implying this situation is very common or anything, but I see it like they could be browsing this site and find a picture of Kaguya acting very different than the NEET ones, and see the pool at the bottom that says "canon version". By curiosity, they click on it and read the description.

Is a super big, dead-important use? No, but is a valid use anyway. I think is as valid as most other pools.

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Fred1515

I think is as valid as most other pools.

This is why allowing pools for every little canon or fanon detail the Touhou fandom dreams up is a bad idea, people will think it's ok to make a pool about whatever as long as they can come up with a theme.

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Toks

Fred1515 said:

This is why allowing pools for every little canon or fanon detail the Touhou fandom dreams up is a bad idea, people will think it's ok to make a pool about whatever as long as they can come up with a theme.

Seriously.

And while we're on the topic of the neet pool (pool #2813), why don't we replace that with a neet houraisan_kaguya search? We already have a neet tag, so it seems redundant. And there's no reason either a pool or a tag about neets should be limited to one character. (This has been brought up before, but not to any resolution I can see.)

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user 393786

Fred1515 said:
people will think it's ok to make a pool about whatever as long as they can come up with a theme.

Ah?
But, that is what pools are about: a list of images that follow a theme. Is okay if people think that, because that is the reason they exist.

I don't see why is that a problem. I'm pretty sure you already know this: A pool is a series of entries in a table in a database. It has a cell with the id of the pool, and a cell with the id of the image. That's it. Is not very expensive or anything, is not like if every image of the pool had to be copied to another folder, duplicating disk space or something, or like if the queries are super-heavy for the system (actually, probably are less heavy than searching for more than 2 tags)

I agree pools like the empty one Toks showed a little ago should be deleted. But considering a pool that follows a theme as a problem... well, that is purpose of pools!

I guess my position is "delete only the absolutely superfluous pools" instead of "try to conserve only the absolutely minimal ones"

The neet tag part sounds interesting. Certainly, a canon_compatible tag (or something similar) would be interesting, and it could be used for other things than touhou and kaguya.
The problem is, sometimes people don't know what is canon. The description of the kaguya pool had things from several sources about what "canon kaguya" is.

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game2009

chris__l said:

Ah?
But, that is what pools are about: a list of images that follow a theme. Is okay if people think that, because that is the reason they exist.

I don't see why is that a problem.

And that would lead to people filling the site with tons of pointless and insignificant pools. Just because you can come up with a theme does not mean a pool has to be created. This would result in the whole idea of pools becoming a "folder" for someone's favorites, not themed pictures put together. You can't simply go and create a pool for your favorite anime character doing your favorite outdoor activity and pass it off as a pool-worthy theme.

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