Posted under General
Originally started in the deletion appeal thread, moving it here to avoid cluttering it.
葉月 said:
Speaking of which, would anyone object strongly if I went and killed all of zone's flashes? Because, IMHO, every single one of them is "never in a million years". They're bad, bad, bad, with not a single redeeming quality. And I want them dead.
Timeline of the individual posts in the discussion:
Updated by KeliraTelian
Just looking at the tags of the posts referenced from those forum replies makes me cringe.
Thank ecchi that there's a tag blacklist.
But anyway, even though I haven't seen the posts in question, they sound absolutely awful - and don't look like they meet Danbooru's criterion for what is considered 'good taste'.
Anything with 'anal fingering' in it, I'd like to see gone.
Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the aforementioned content should necessarily be nuked - hell, if other people like it, then good for them; I have a blacklist. But I just wouldn't really lament its disappearance, since I am somewhat biased against overtly sexual content.
Updated
Bapabooiee said:
Anything with 'anal fingering' in it, I'd like to see gone.
Eh, I don't see anything wrong with that tag. I might not find it interesting, but I don't see anything wrong it. There are vastly far worse things around than that.
Anyways, back on topic. I only looked at a few of the flashes, but they certainly seemed worthy of deletion. If there is any that someone actually feels is worth keeping they could always appeal after the deletion. If they are all of the quality I saw though, I don't see a particular reason to keep them.
Well there's the standard objections like "someone approved them", and I thought you were largely anti-purge?
post #98166 is pretty catchy, and post #103160 is perfectly up to standards.
Why not just flag them for deletion and let them go through the unapproval process? Actually, I'm sure someone will now that you've brought them up.
Well, there's post #98166 and post #103160 that aren't badly made, although not really that on topic...
post #359293 is okay. Everything else is pretty sub-par, though.
Yeah, i've noticed that Zone hasn't been putting forth effort lately. I Strongly like their earlier works like post #175406 and post #306577, but their newer flashes are all garbage with the exception of post #359293. It'll be kinda' sad to see them go, but the time has long since come to end this.
Pretty much any sex flash is garbage but I figure we should handle them on a case by case basis. There are some truly horrid ones that never should have been approved but, say, that Miku one is... well I find it utterly unappealing and would not approve it but there's nothing against TOS in it, I guess.
jxh2154 said:
Pretty much any sex flash is garbage but I figure we should handle them on a case by case basis.
It's probably too early to generalize all sex flashes based on Zone's work with uploads from other artists like post #371512.
The thing with Zone is that most of the uploaded posts are paid works and have a high potential for C&D.
If someone really wanted that stuff, they would pay for it or run off to some *chan.
Kayako said:
Well, there's post #98166 and post #103160 that aren't badly made, although not really that on topic...
Oh, good catch, I forgot about these. So let's clarify that I want to kill all zone sex flashes.
EDIT: Oh, right, they're identified by hentai_key, the crap porn network.
一声 said:
It's probably too early to generalize all sex flashes based on Zone's work with uploads from other artists like post #371512.
It's never too early. Porn is old as dirt, and has always been predominantly crap. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are exceptions. The rule is porn == crap.
And as for zone flashes, they're all particularly bad. The quality is just so damn abysmal in every single one of them it's not funny. That is the primary reason I want them to go.
葉月 said:
It's never too early. Porn is old as dirt, and has always been predominantly crap. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are exceptions. The rule is porn == crap.
Hazuki, even if your opinion of that "crap" is true, it's the kind of stuff that drives certain people to Danbooru in the first place. As unfortunate as it is.
Removing the Zone flashes will definitely set a precedent for sex flashes, and it would be a shame to see an upload be shot down just because 1. it was a swf file and 2. it featured sexual intercourse.
If everyone had the same heavy-handed rationale that you had, then Danbooru would have 70,000 less posts and even less visitors. I know Danbooru's raison d'être is not to function as a porn repository, however, someone may see artistic merit where you see vulgarity.
I went back to check the flash tag, and I can see why they're looked down upon, but here's to hoping fans of the particular shitty ones save them before they're gone from here forever.
I still stand by my statement that sex flashes shouldn't be deleted just because a mod/janitor refused to take off their rose-colored glasses.
Oops. Didn't mean to make the new post, but I just want to clarify that I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm going against the hivemind so everyone can see the other side of the issue.
Updated
I don't like them either. That said, there are only about 30 Zone flashes here anyway, it's not like you can come across one unless you're looking for it (and blacklists work for flash posts too, right?)
More importantly though, a mod deleting them like that goes against the mod queue and unnapproval systems and the reasons they were created. Hazuki (or Haduki? I've seen both) you have a "never in a million years" approach towards futa too, right? That doesn't mean you can go ahead and delete all 2000 futa posts here.
Soljashy said:
Does Danbooru really need those people, though?
It probably does, they're the ones who see ads and occasionally click on them.
Updated
一声 said:
Hazuki, even if your opinion of that "crap" is true, it's the kind of stuff that drives certain people to Danbooru in the first place. As unfortunate as it is.
Sooo? I've been campaigning to target precisely this kind of people and drive them away previously, what makes you think I would care? Danbooru does not live by the generated traffic, we don't need more people. If one day all the 100k fappers decided to disappear completely, it'd be the happiest day of my moderator life.
一声 said:
Some of them happen to be active contributors, and there's always potential for more.
And why'd we want their "contributions" in the first place? Do you also think that European settlers "contributed" diseases and alcoholism to the native population of Americas?
Fred1515 said:
More importantly though, a mod deleting them like that goes against the mod queue and unnapproval systems and the reasons they were created.
You're wrong. Mods are able to delete things for a reason.
Hazuki (or Haduki? I've seen both) you have a "never in a million years" approach towards futa too, right?
Hazuki. And no, I have that approach against towards most futa *pics*, because they fucking suck. I don't understand futa personally, and violently oppose most of the bad porn qualities associated with it, but I don't have a religious stance against the concept. I approved one pic which was good, and that's all. I haven't come across more that were good, and those that aren't don't have any place here.
That doesn't mean you can go ahead and delete all 2000 futa posts here.
As a matter of fact, yes I can. That's why I have this little button called "Delete", to delete pics. It's another matter entirely whether I should, and that's why I made a thread first, Sherlock. But your assumption that danbooru is some kind of democratically driven egalitarian community is wrong. It's not. If what mattered was where "someone may see artistic merit", we'd deal in Naruto wallpapers and Britney Spears ringtones, because that's what appeals to the majority. But thankfully the majority is inconsequential, and if mods decided to banish X or Y or Z overnight, we'd be damn well able to, the majority's opinion be damned. And if albert decided to oust us all, he'd be able to as well, nevermind he's alone and the users are legion. Yes, we do have a community, and yes, we do try to work for it, not against it, and yes, your power is generally in direct recognition of the contributions to the community. But in the end, there's an imbalance of power designed in, precisely to allow the resolution of stupid bikeshed issues which we'd never end otherwise, lest some fappers' feelings might get hurt.
Danbooru is not a democracy. We won't start eating shit just because a billion flies do.
葉月 said:
*wall of text*
Whoa, I'd have kept my mouth shut if I knew you'd get this mad.
I know Danbooru is not a democracy, but it's not a monarchy either. What I meant to say was, it might be more appropriate to just send them back to the queue than deleting them outright, because that would defeat the whole purpose of having the queue in the first place (since you could start deleting what other mods/janitors/admins approved, etch.) And yeah, I meant "should", not "could" regarding the futa thing, sorry.
Anyways, please don't get so worked up over what I say, I'm not that important, just expressed my (very likely to be wrong) opinion. Btw I'd really like to see that futa pic you approved, it must be pretty damn good. Do you remember which one it is?
My point was that the mod queue is not the be-all, end-all of moderation. It's a very important tool that has superseded many of the things we've done previously, but it's far from being the *only* tool. Things still can and do slip past it, and there are still old posts, and we still can change our mind of some issues, as well as identify problems that haven't been visible previously. All that can require moderators to step in, and "but the mod queue!" is not a real answer. If we get a consensus that something should go, then I don't see how the queue is in any way binding. In fact, it's the opposite, remember that things go in if *any single* mod likes them, yet you're effectively saying that we can't agree to change any of these decisions because that'd be getting onto other mods' turf. It doesn't make sense.
EDIT: Oh, and to take the metaphors further, in fact we are very close to a constitutional monarchy. Most of the things do get in by consensus, but the ruler still has provisions to override it. It probably wouldn't do well to abuse that ability, but occasionally his word is law, and it's called ToS. If albert makes something forbidden in the ToS, it's pretty much the end of the story.
And yes, I do happen to remember. post #519169. I find it damn cute.
