Posted under General
surasshu said:
What? I was proposing it for safe images only. What part of that is trouble?I mean, I want to find images like this: post #154508 (I removed the loli tag)
I would say that "child" is a fine tag for this, but any other suggestion would be fine too, maybe the Japanese "kodomo".
How could an image site with a "child" search tag and some pictures hidden to general public not invite trouble?
And "kodomo" might not be well known by the average user.
Almatia said:
How could an image site with a "child" search tag and some pictures hidden to general public not invite trouble?And "kodomo" might not be well known by the average user.
child->kodomo alias, maybe?
I think this "loli ≠ safe" rule should be on the image upload page by the way.
'young' already exists, and doesn't seem to have a clear purpose yet. I had thought it was meant as an inverse of 'adult' (i.e. characters who are portrayed younger as they usually appear), but that hardly seems consistent (especially since there are actually only 10 posts). Perhaps that would work here?
Ah well the way you describe young is actually a tag I was looking for when uploading this image (post #154986).
But yeah that could definitely work as a safe-loli.
surasshu said:
I don't mind it being genderless since there do exist (despite rumours to the contrary) images of kids without any girls.
Genderless would not be a problem if boys didn't exist. Problem I see is to click on a pic and then finding out it was boy, without being warned. I think boys and girls are not exactly the same.
Eh, they're just kids. It's pretty close, actually. And seriously, I tried to find an example picture on the server with a kid boy and I don't think there is a single one, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
EDIT--*re post below* yeah but that also involves a girl, I was looking for one with just boys. :D But yeah, that was sort of my point, that it's safe imagery anyway. If I'm looking through pictures like that, I really wouldn't mind if one of them is of a bunch of boys playing baseball on a dusty field, or something. As long as it's cute and well-drawn! :D
surasshu said:
Eh, they're just kids. It's pretty close, actually. And seriously, I tried to find an example picture on the server with a kid boy and I don't think there is a single one, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
There are lot of images of male children on Danbooru, the aformentioned 'young' points you to post #144873. Regardless since these pictures are supposed to be safe, I don't see that gender matters all that much.
phane said:
The best way to do it IMO is to have something like "adolescent" cover pictures of any rating, with "loli" being certain explicit things that imply "adolescent."
Isn't "adolescent" too old for loli? After all 95% of non-loli characters are still in the 14-16 year old range.
wanchan said: To quote Albert's original wiki entry: "Cute work-safe images of fully clothed girls need not be tagged loli"
Which really means this debate was over before it started.
I also think people who get worried that tagging things 'child' will bring the FBI down on us are being far too paranoid. Course, I still think tagging something like age is silly (and only doing it for one age group), but that's just me.
Lastly, on tagging loli as an aesthetic (i.e. opening it up beyond just sexual images), we don't do it for cute or moe or ecchi and this seems like it would be nearly as subjective. Anyone remember Sailoli? Good god the debates over whether character 'x' or 'y' was loli were... just absurd. And you can't go by official ages either, because age in anime is among the most meaningless concepts humanity has ever created. How many "13 year olds" look like supermodels?
If you're tagging for aesthetic, then the gothiloli/amaloli example cited from Shugo Chara! is perhaps legit -- but don't tag them as 'loli'. Tag them as gothiloli or amaloli (or the english equivalents, whatever we're using), because it's a specific type of clothing, and far less subjective.
Lolita fashion shouldn't really be part of the debate, since the words are only related by historical accident (and Lolita fashion fans in Japan have taken to spelling their "lolita" differently in order to avoid lolicon results when they do Google searches). Here, the fashion words are always tagged with the full word "Lolita" rather than the short "loli". (edit: to support this, I suggest aliasing "lolita" to "lolita_fashion" and implicating that from both "sweet_lolita", "gothic_lolita", and any other lolita tags)
I think a non-safe version of "loli" would work if it were aliased to "lolicon" in order to give the non-safe meaning clearer, and it should also imply rating:questionable the same way other "dangerous" tags do. "shota" should work the same way - it becomes "shotacon" and implies questionable. "young" seems fine for me for loli/shota but safe (and since it's safe, no need to distinguish sex). Maybe "children" (which sidesteps the "child" and "kiddie" problems)?
Boco said: I think a non-safe version of "loli" would work if it were aliased to "lolicon" in order to give the non-safe meaning clearer, and it should also imply rating:questionable the same way other "dangerous" tags do.
This isn't a bad idea, if we use lolicon in the sense of the material rather than the person enjoying the material. I'm not sure which is the more correct meaning of the term, but since it's just short for "lolita complex" I suppose both are legitimate? It also has the advantage of making it more explicit that this is not a gray area, it is simply not 'safe, and I'm hopeful that people would be far less likely to tag it on safe, clothed images of young females than they would with loli.
ok i read most of the first page and than i kinda skimmed the rest of it because there is only so long you can read about what is loli and what it isnt. because this is of intrest to me i decided to post what i think loli is.
loli in the way i see it used is as non sexual, as in any little girl is a loli. and this also extends to charaters who are older than the normal loli but still look like one. there are 2 sides to that, and they are the ones that say as long as they are older than 18 they cant be a loli any more, this is usualy brought up if someone asks about etna, at least that is where i see it the most. but yea loli is the general term discribeing any young girl.
lolicon/lolikon (depending on who you ask it is different) is loli in a sexual sence. in that sence this pic is the non lolicon side http://miezaru.donmai.us/post/show/119523 and this one is on the lolicon side http://miezaru.donmai.us/post/show/113171 granted ont far on it but its there.
now here is where this thread is in my opinion, most the people here (i only read the front page) dont activly look at lolicon, other wise they wouldent think loli=lolicon, yea loli can be short for it but the 2 terms took on differnet meanings after a while. people who look at lolicon allot will or at least shuld understand what i am saying. the same thing for shota, without the con after it it is harmless.
Alidan: Please read the whole thread, as well as the previous thread, before you comment. The points you're making are treaded ground.
In addition, please learn to spell, capitalize your sentences, and use correct punctuation.
Thank you,
kumarei
Edit: Also, what the fuck are you talking about? Those two pictures are both obviously lolicon.
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