The bad practice of tagging company tags because of copyright notice

I've notice this since a long time ago but didn't bother to write about it, but the situation hasn't improved since so I think we should talk about it. Lots of people tag the indirect copyrights to posts that already have a direct copyright tag due to the presence of copyright notice, in most cases, this being games tagged with their company/developer/distributer etc.

This easily floods the post's copytag count and makes it hard to search for anything actually related to the company for no good reason. There is no value in tagging a company because it's merely mentioned at the corner of a post. On top of that, we already have copyright notice + company name, that's exactly what they are for.

The worst example being how often crypton future media, piapro and sega end up on vocaloid posts, that's a copyright boost from one to four. That's ridiculous.

This should be common sense. A magazine scan (like Nyantype) that's clearly drawn by the anime studio's artists but has a copyright notice for the original manga artist, magazine, and publisher isn't by that artist and isn't generally about that manga magazine or publisher. If some anime coloring scan has "© Koi / Manga Time Kirara / Houbunsha" in the corner, you tag none of the three. You shouldn't even add copyright name or artist name, even if it's the artist's style. Every Yu-Gi-Oh! card has "© 1996 Takahashi Kazuki" on it, and MTG/MLP/Pokémon say stuff about Wizards of the Coast and Hasbro or The Pokémon Company.

Tell them it's wrong and neg them if it persists.

Previous post about Crypton Future Media and Piapro in topic #20867

The first question to ask is what exactly should these tags be for? What is "supposed" to be seen when a user searches these tags?

Let's start with Piapro since it's easier to define. The wiki lists several definitions for what is but the most concrete as far as Danbooru is concerned is the copyright to which Hatsune Miku (NT) belongs to, so that stays. Beyond that, there's an overlap with Crypton Future Media, which doesn't really provide a good explanation of what it should be tagged for.

Reiterating what I said in the previous thread, I personally only use it for official art. In this case, a copyright notice is a good visual indicator that a post is official art as opposed to normal fanart. Even then, this definition is a bit muddy due to the number of collaborations that Crypton characters have, as well things like countdown art, promotional art, etc.

Understandable, but vocaloid + official art seems sufficient, which are already on all those posts

After all, why don't vocaloid and piapro imply crypton future media? it's like a vtuber agency and its branches in a way

Going through the Crypton Future Media tag, I do see there are a lot of Project SEKAI posts that don't feature Crypton/Piapro characters and yet are tagged as such. I suppose that's the main problem this thread is bringing up? I'm gonna go ahead and remove them.

LQ said:

Understandable, but vocaloid + official art seems sufficient, which are already on all those posts

After all, why don't vocaloid and piapro imply crypton future media? it's like a vtuber agency and its branches in a way

VOCALOID does not belong to Crypton Future Media, it belongs to Yamaha. Vocaloid voicebanks are each developed by different companies (Crypton, Gynoid Co, Internet Co, 1st PLACE Co, etc) in collaboration with Yamaha. Of those several dozen characters, Crypton Future Media only owns the six Piapro Family characters.

I guess piapro could imply crypton if the intent is ever to put either on every miku post... I think it's an all-or-nothing situation, and people would probably prefer "nothing".

Generally, copyright tags should be coupled to the characters present in the image and have nothing to do with any text or environments in the image. So all posts with a character should have that character's copyrights (except for when copyrights are reserved for a more general grouping), like with those manga magazines

Hard to say...

luntoer said:

Going through the Crypton Future Media tag, I do see there are a lot of Project SEKAI posts that don't feature Crypton/Piapro characters and yet are tagged as such. I suppose that's the main problem this thread is bringing up? I'm gonna go ahead and remove them.

Yeah, in cases like post #4998915, as you can see in the bottom right, there's a copyright notice, which was used as justification to tag Crypton Future Media, Piapro, and SEGA. The issue here is one related to the one discussed in topic #29274, of people using any sort of logic to tag company tags willy-nilly, but here you arrive at the problem that tagging companies whenever they are namedropped in copyright notices is already seen as acceptable practice (justifying it under the same logic as tagging a company based on whether their text logo appears). This is something you'll find across many copytags like this.

Doesn't help that stuff like Megami Magazine cause further copyright tagging awkwardness.

LQ said:

[...]
Tell them it's wrong and neg them if it persists.

The thing is way too many people do this so now it seems like a "common sense" and the quantity snowballs. I would DM them if it was just a few people but at this point no way I can DM every single person contributing to the mess. That's why I decided to talk about this behaviour in the forum.

luntoer said:

Reiterating what I said in the previous thread, I personally only use it for official art. In this case, a copyright notice is a good visual indicator that a post is official art as opposed to normal fanart. Even then, this definition is a bit muddy due to the number of collaborations that Crypton characters have, as well things like countdown art, promotional art, etc.

I disagree with the use on official arts, I don't think it's necessary, and there're way too many Miku official arts it just floods the tags. Plus vocaloid copyright_notice is not a difficult search.

also side note: It makes the copyright section significantly more difficult to read. vocaloid copyright_notice copytags:6 6 copyright tags is crazy.

luntoer said:

The first question to ask is what exactly should these tags be for? What is "supposed" to be seen when a user searches these tags?

Let's start with Piapro since it's easier to define. The wiki lists several definitions for what is but the most concrete as far as Danbooru is concerned is the copyright to which Hatsune Miku (NT) belongs to, so that stays. Beyond that, there's an overlap with Crypton Future Media, which doesn't really provide a good explanation of what it should be tagged for.

Company tags are generally expected to be used so looking for posts directly associating/referencing the company is easier, such as company connection, the company's anniversary, specific information about the company etc. This sounds good on paper but it's currently almost impossible because of how much these tags are diluted by random copyright notice posts.

luntoer said:

Going through the Crypton Future Media tag, I do see there are a lot of Project SEKAI posts that don't feature Crypton/Piapro characters and yet are tagged as such. I suppose that's the main problem this thread is bringing up? I'm gonna go ahead and remove them.

Because the old habit of users tagging Crypton Future Media on Vocaloid copyright notice posts "taught" Project Sekai taggers to do the same given how closely they're related.

magcolo said:
Company tags are generally expected to be used so looking for posts directly associating/referencing the company is easier, such as company connection, the company's anniversary, specific information about the company etc. This sounds good on paper but it's currently almost impossible because of how much these tags are diluted by random copyright notice posts.

The question was specifically for Crypton Future Media. What exactly should the tag be used for? What would you put on the wiki to tell people what to tag and what not to tag? Do we even need this tag to begin with?

The only posts I can think of that directly reference Crypton in any way is the logo being written on Racing Miku (2022). Other than that, Crypton isn't really the kind of entity where you'd see art explicitly portraying them in any way.

Having both Crypton Future Media and Piapro feels redundant for sure. Piapro is basically just CFM's vocaloid-specific branch. I don't think CFM has any other non-vocaloid characters? Or at least none tagged on here. Should probably alias the tags in one direction or the other rather than implicating.

The VOCALOID and Crypton Future Media tags have a weird relationship. Strictly speaking, going by how copyright tags work, all posts that have the Cryptonloids should be tagged with Crypton in the same way Vsinger (Vocaloid) characters have them. But that would account for over 99% of Vocaloid posts (Not an exaggeration, 99.3% at the time of posting) and make it redundant with Vocaloid.

Yet, Crypton is not synonymous with VOCALOID as events a few years ago have shown when Crypton decided to split off from VOCALOID and develop Piapro. This threatened to redefine the Cryptonloids moving forward, but Crypton did eventually end up returning back to using VOCALOID.

magcolo said:

I've notice this since a long time ago but didn't bother to write about it, but the situation hasn't improved since so I think we should talk about it. Lots of people tag the indirect copyrights to posts that already have a direct copyright tag due to the presence of copyright notice, in most cases, this being games tagged with their company/developer/distributer etc.

This easily floods the post's copytag count and makes it hard to search for anything actually related to the company for no good reason. There is no value in tagging a company because it's merely mentioned at the corner of a post. On top of that, we already have copyright notice + company name, that's exactly what they are for.

The worst example being how often crypton future media, piapro and sega end up on vocaloid posts, that's a copyright boost from one to four. That's ridiculous.

I think for Type Moon specifically there should be a general tag due to all of their series having a ton of cross over and overlap, but asides that I agree.

BUR #34349 has been approved by @evazion.

deprecate crypton_future_media
nuke crypton_future_media
mass update piapro -hatsune_miku_(nt) -> -piapro
create alias piapro -> piapro_studio

The Crypton tag doesn't seem to have any particular utility. The Piapro tag is also currently quite ambiguous so for the sake of clarity I think it's best to define it by its most concrete definition as the editor to which Hatsune Miku (NT) belongs.

Witch-Hunter-Siegfried said:

I think for Type Moon specifically there should be a general tag due to all of their series having a ton of cross over and overlap, but asides that I agree.

TYPE-MOON is overtagged for sure but it should still be its own copyright tag due to art featuring Nasu Kinoko or references to things like the Black Keys or Neco Spirits. (And also Mr. Kaleidoscope.)

luntoer said:

BUR #34349 has been approved by @evazion.

deprecate crypton_future_media
nuke crypton_future_media
mass update piapro -hatsune_miku_(nt) -> -piapro
create alias piapro -> piapro_studio

The Crypton tag doesn't seem to have any particular utility. The Piapro tag is also currently quite ambiguous so for the sake of clarity I think it's best to define it by its most concrete definition as the editor to which Hatsune Miku (NT) belongs.

I suspect that out of the enormous amount of vocaloid related art out there, there has to be at least a few that reference Crypton directly, so a deprecation doesn't seem right to me.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

The bulk update request #34349 (forum #321798) has been approved by @evazion.

The Crypton tag doesn't seem to have any particular utility. The Piapro tag is also currently quite ambiguous so for the sake of clarity I think it's best to define it by its most concrete definition as the editor to which Hatsune Miku (NT) belongs.

The Piapro Studio tag seems to have no purpose anymore given that it's only used for Hatsune Miku (NT) and all her posts are tagged Vocaloid anyway.

evazion said:

The Piapro Studio tag seems to have no purpose anymore given that it's only used for Hatsune Miku (NT) and all her posts are tagged Vocaloid anyway.

I'm reminded of topic #23946 and topic #25830, it begs the question of whether or not something should be done about vocal synth copytags.