Since the last reply agreed on a "torch everything and run", let's start off with the hololive tags first (first part). Whoever made the tags in the first place should have thought twice on doing this for findability's sake. Also the ReGloss part is almost equal to hololive Dev_Is. If that's what you really want, to be "all-or-nothing" regarding group tags, fine.
I personally would like to keep the duo tags too but it is what it is, but where the hell is this coming from? Even though I don't mind duo tags personally, it's not exactly difficult to see how they are kind of the odd ones out when compared to group tags of 3 or more characters (which are more of a hassle to search), and nobody here was arguing for nuking all group tags.
Also, my question of "where and what forum topic did the rule come from" wasn't answered. I saw the previous FuwaMoco discussion that started the IMAS discussion that led to this, but it doesn't go back enough.
This was the oldest example I found of someone specifically stating that "combo tags" aren't something we allow. Note that all of the tags mentioned in that thread have since been nuked. I'm sure there are older examples of combo tags being nuked/rejected, this was just the first one I found.
I personally would like to keep the duo tags too but it is what it is, but where the hell is this coming from? Even though I don't mind duo tags personally, it's not exactly difficult to see how they are kind of the odd ones out when compared to group tags of 3 or more characters (which are more of a hassle to search), and nobody here was arguing for nuking all group tags.
From the IMAS duo tags thread:
AkaringoP said:
Personally, I'm in favor of tags for 2-member groups. I didn't understand why they should be nuked and the others shouldn't be. Unless there's a specific reason to do so, BUR should be all-or-nothing.
This was the oldest example I found of someone specifically stating that "combo tags" aren't something we allow. Note that all of the tags mentioned in that thread have since been nuked. I'm sure there are older examples of combo tags being nuked/rejected, this was just the first one I found.
It's an oldbooru rule. Well, times have changed. While IMAS had been in vogue by then, we didn't see how much it would become popular with LL, and later on, vtubing.
Apologies when I said I'm "full torch" I meant duo tags regardless of canon status. While I would love to kill these as well since I think they are easy to search with character_name + gender_counter I acknowledge that is a minority opinion. Also there is much more room for error as opposed to a duo tag which is unambiguously replicable by even a member level user.
It's an oldbooru rule. Well, times have changed. While IMAS had been in vogue by then, we didn't see how much it would become popular with LL, and later on, vtubing.
Yes, its an "oldbooru" rule that we've upheld all the way up to today. Not some forgotten gentag that's survived only for being obscure and unused.
321 of holomyth posts are not tagged 5girls, which is probably something that needs some looking into, but for now it means that there are 321 Holomyth posts not covered by the suggested search.
That seems pretty unreliable to me. It's a completely different situation from micomet (hololive), assuming it's only ever used on pictures featuring only Sakura Miko and Hoshimachi Suisei together and no one else, in practice only saving you from having to add 2girls to an otherwise simple search.
Or just accept the changed state of things, accept duo persontags, and actively think of better safeguards to ensure they won't be as misused as they are now. For me personally, this is the path of least resistance in the long-term.
Not upheld very well then given that we have so many duo tags now. In any case I guess it's time to start nuking all the other duo tags.
Say that about literally any time some random thing we don't actually want people doing happens while the people that would enforce it aren't looking. We're talking about general tags, things that are constantly overlooked in the sea of mind numbing blue. It's not like anyone here is omniscient. I didn't even know any of these tags existed until they were brought up here. How many people here, besides the creators and people arguing to keep them, did?
Realistically speaking, free users can't even search more than 2 tags at a time. Duo tags and group tags are useful for the searching purpose as someone who works in a store department. The best I want to say is the focus or how to not misusing it.
You can't expect all members to just want get the gold upgrade to search over 1-2 tags. Even with 2 tags, there are still a lot of obstacles because of the main highlight in any artwork can be different from one to another
Realistically speaking, free users can't even search more than 2 tags at a time. Duo tags and group tags are useful for the searching purpose as someone who works in a store department. The best I want to say is the focus or how to not misusing it.
That's basically my clamor all this time but nobody seems to be in favor of discarding an old rule that was originally meant to discourage specific forms of a single gentag. I wanted it to be at least under strict guidelines and conditions (e.g. the duo name has to be officially-recognized with at least a couple of song covers/singles, must have official merch under that name, must have been featured in the agency's official channels such as a collab/talkshow, etc.) and we can still fulfill the original reason-of-existence neatly. Sure, it takes some work like someone has to police that most of the time to prevent mistags from slipping too often, but it would be worth the risk and added effort.
That's basically my clamor all this time but nobody seems to be in favor of discarding an old rule that was originally meant to discourage specific forms of a single gentag. I wanted it to be at least under strict guidelines and conditions (e.g. the duo name has to be officially-recognized with at least a couple of song covers/singles, must have official merch under that name, must have been featured in the agency's official channels such as a collab/talkshow, etc.) and we can still fulfill the original reason-of-existence neatly. Sure, it takes some work like someone has to police that most of the time to prevent mistags from slipping too often, but it would be worth the risk and added effort.
And if there are like 5 girls in the background, then the attempt of searching "2girls" and "2boys" wouldn't even be possible regardless of how minor their appearances are. That is still already 3+ tags, meaning you have to upgrade the account into gold. If we want the ease of access, then we can't expect 3 tags or more to be searched since the majority of userbase is free users. If these general tags didn't create any issue in searching, I don't know why did we need to nuke it. Just because it wasn't useful for some people doesn't mean it was the same for other people. I also benefit from using the tag to search specific units while saving tags. Just because I'm not a free user doesn't mean I can't talk for them and I believe in the ease of accessibility more than anyone preference.
For free users, if they try to search for Hoshimachi_Suisei and Sakura_Miko then they would end up with 72 pages of results because that is the limit with 2 tags. Meanwhile, the specific "micomet" tag would only give about 42 pages since the other 30 pages don't have these two members being matched together and just exist in the same artwork.
With 3 tags, you can technically add 2girls in it. However, you can't expect the said 2girls to actually be micomet since there is a chance for the said two characters to be someone else while Suisei and Miko merely appear as cameos in the background. At least that is how I determine the way to use the duotag. The first thing is to not put a burden into free users and force them to use 2 tags all the time because it leaves them no choice but to send them into the midst of ocean artwork that can mean no end.
You can just search micomet and the last tag to be one other general tag. I prefer duo tags to be kept and not force any free users into getting the gold upgrade to force unnecessary tags. As someone who regularly uses the duo tag, I can say that the people who decided to nuke it don't care about those who are using it nor free users who can't afford the upgrade.
Should the fubumicomet_(hololive) tag be nuked as well? As stated already, it was only created recently and isn't an official grouping as much as a roundabout way to keep the micomet tag.
Should the fubumicomet_(hololive) tag be nuked as well? As stated already, it was only created recently and isn't an official grouping as much as a roundabout way to keep the micomet tag.
It was mentioned that not many results showed up when looking for it, but I found several on various websites with a Google search. It's even been acknowledged by Sakura Miko in this clip. If I remember correctly, fan group names are taggable if they're popular enough, but I'm not deep enough in the rabbit hole to know whether this evidence is enough to justify keeping the tag.
