Technically speaking, the modern meaning of the word predates Danbooru, as evident by its usage for trans people dating back to the 1980s. Both Pixpedia and Japanese Wikipedia address this. Danbooru's use of the term originates from a very narrow slice of people who tried to use it in the context of futa, and even back in 2011/2 (topic #7751, topic #10767) people were aware of newhalf's varied IRL use and its potential for mistagging.
The new name might seem more clunky, but it would be far more accurate to the spirit of the tag, and in turn shed all the issues it had with its current name. Hell, I remember how back in forum #272459 I had mentioned a then-recent incident of someone changing the wikis to have newhalf rendered with a more accurate name.
I disagree with the change because it feels like is needlessly twisting the meaning of the term futanari for no good reason. Futanari is by definition, the presence of both sets of genitals in a female body while newhalf is the presence of dick and balls on a female body with no vagina. If we take away one of the element that define the concept of Futanari, then is no longer futanari is it?
Personally I think that Ehentai's approach to the term shemale is the most sensible for this topic, especially when it comes to the assumptions when the pictures are drawn in such a way that is not possible to confirm the presence of a vagina.
Futanari - Penis with a vagina still present (may not be visible) on a female. If the vagina is not shown, it is assumed if the penis is shown but no testicles are present.
Shemale - Penis and usually testicles present with no vagina on a female. Assumed when testicles are shown whilst a vagina is not.
We'd just be starting back at square one if we changed newhalf to shemale, where we would be using a real world term to refer to somethingentirelydifferent. Hell, in a lot of cases, newhalf is synonymized with shemale. E-Hentai's approach terminologically is essentially our current approach, just with the English equivalent rather than the Japanese one - neither of which truly reflect the usage, which is essentially "futanari except drawn without the vagina".
We'd just be starting back at square one if we changed newhalf to shemale, where we would be using a real world term to refer to somethingentirelydifferent. Hell, in a lot of cases, newhalf is synonymized with shemale. E-Hentai's approach terminologically is essentially our current approach, just with the English equivalent rather than the Japanese one - neither of which truly reflect the usage, which is essentially "futanari except drawn without the vagina".
Oh, I don't mean changing the tag name to shemale I was merely using their definition as an example of how I think the distinction between Futanari and Newhalf work and why I am against renaming it futa without pussy. To clarify, I think the tag should remain as it is since is a proper term that is well-defined already and if anything, the discussion should be as to how handle cases where you can see penis and testicles on a female body but is not possible to confirm the presence/absence of a vagina. Plus I don't think that changing the name will do anything to stop the constant arguments over mistagging anyway.
The relationship we have between the futanari tag and this newhalf/futa_without_pussy tag is kind of funny, given we don't have similar implication and subsumption between the male_futanari and cuntboy tags. The renaming it makes it clearer, but it also firmly cements it as a subcategory of futanari, which is completely different from the division between the male counterparts.
...if anything, the discussion should be as to how handle cases where you can see penis and testicles on a female body but is not possible to confirm the presence/absence of a vagina.
That discussion has already been had though, and it is in favor of tagging such cases as futanari and only tagging the tag being discussed here if the absence of a vagina can be confirmed (because if there is one, then that's full-package futanari), because the current overwhelming appeal in futanari and its subtags is seeing depictions of, essentially, cis women with penises - just as the appeal of male futanari and cuntboy is seeing, essentially, cis men with vaginas. Even the Japanese aren't this stringent on the issue, given how many newhalf posts sourced from Pixiv are also tagged futanari there as well.
This discussion isn't going to be stalled any further by people who keep derailing these discussions with their frustrations about the usage of futanari on Danbooru in general.
GreyOmega said:
The relationship we have between the futanari tag and this newhalf/futa_without_pussy tag is kind of funny, given we don't have similar implication and subsumption between the male_futanari and cuntboy tags. The renaming it makes it clearer, but it also firmly cements it as a subcategory of futanari, which is completely different from the division between the male counterparts.
The explanation I was given for this discrepancy is the fact that female futanari has ambiguity due to much art emphasizing the penis aspect over the vagina aspect, hence the approach Danbooru uses for the tag and, in turn, the tag being discussed here. In contrast, you don't have that ambiguity with male futanari and cuntboy because, well, if you can see their vagina you'd also inevitably see if they have a penis or not. I personally believe that the two should be lumped together via implication, given their shared appeal, especially as the same thing I said for futa/newhalf overlapping on Japanese websites applies to malefuta/cuntboy as well (hell, I'm sure there are some posts under male futanari that should be under cuntboy instead, but Pixiv tagging put it under the former).
I disagree with the change because it feels like is needlessly twisting the meaning of the term futanari for no good reason. Futanari is by definition, the presence of both sets of genitals in a female body while newhalf is the presence of dick and balls on a female body with no vagina. If we take away one of the element that define the concept of Futanari, then is no longer futanari is it?
There is no universally agreed upon definition of futa. This tag basically exists because of disagreements over what futa is. It's basically the age old "does liking futa make you gay?" argument. One side says it's gay when the futa has balls. Another side says it's gay when there's no pussy. The last side says the whole thing is gay. Futa enjoyers want to split the tag so that the stuff they perceive as gay and not real futa is in another tag, while futa dislikers don't want the tag split so that it's all in one tag they can easily filter out.
We favor the last group. We use an all-inclusive definition of futa to make it easier to filter out for regular people. Futanari is one of the most blacklisted tags on the site. A person blacklisting futanari almost certainly doesn't want to see newhalf either. You shouldn't have to filter out N different tags just to filter out girls with dicks. And you shouldn't be forced to learn all the subtle differences between terms like futanari and newhalf and shemale just to filter out a fetish you hate.
If we want a tag for explicitly transgender characters, then we should make one instead of using a euphemism like newhalf just to avoid the T-word. I suspect part of the reason we don't have one yet is because then we'd have to confront the fact that many of the characters tagged newhalf aren't really meant to be viewed as transgender, they're just established female characters magically drawn with a dick and balls but no pussy.
I thought this discussion was independent about the gender implications and exclusively about what can be seen on the pictures themselves, especially since I was recently told that canon doesn't count for tagging.
Furthermore, if the goal is to make filtering easier for the average user and stop them from having to blacklist a bunch of tags and newhalf and full- package futanari already imply futanari, then why have separate tags at all and not simply use futanari for all and any cases of female bodies with dicks?
Furthermore, if the goal is to make filtering easier for the average user and stop them from having to blacklist a bunch of tags and newhalf and full- package futanari already imply futanari, then why have separate tags at all and not simply use futanari for all and any cases of female bodies with dicks?
Because there are people that want them separate. There's no reason to remove the ability to separate them. It doesn't benefit anybody to do that, the implication to futanari already accomplishes the ability to blacklist the entire concept. We can do both, we don't need to pick one or the other.
Because there are people that want them separate. There's no reason to remove the ability to separate them. It doesn't benefit anybody to do that, the implication to futanari already accomplishes the ability to blacklist the entire concept. We can do both, we don't need to pick one or the other.
I mean, you can do the same thing by filtering futanari and testicle together.
I mean, you can do the same thing by filtering futanari and testicle together.
You can't though? All the possible differences have already been mentioned, it's not just about testicles or no testicles. Not to mention the fact we've already seen multiple times that it's not even intuitive for a lot of regular users to just think about blacklisting tag compositions.
The different tags exist to make the different concepts easily searchable, and their implication to futanari does the job of the easy blacklisting because that one tag already encompasses all cases of a girl with a dick on danbooru; It's as simple as that, like blinvigil said. I don't see any reason to be against the existence of those subtags? they're still useful
I mean, you can do the same thing by filtering futanari and testicle together.
That would also hide any futa_with_male pics where the dude's balls are visible, or just about any futa pic that has testicles anywhere other than the futa itself. Simple solutions are always hindered by the presence of more than one character in a picture.
Since we went through with the alias, we'll need to fix the relationship tags too. Unfortunately, I can't think of a good way to do so (assuming it's even worth trying) without merging newhalf_with_newhalf with futa_with_newhalf. I don't think I need to explain why futa_without_pussy_with_futa_without_pussy would not work.
It's worth having a tag for mismatched futa interactions imo. Especially because without these tags there would be no way to filter a search further, given that futa without pussy is a subset of futanari.
What do we use as a name then? I can't think of any good ones off the top of my head either, and even the last attempt at this proposed just nuking them/merging them into the futa_with_ tags.
What do we use as a name then? I can't think of any good ones off the top of my head either, and even the last attempt at this proposed just nuking them/merging them into the futa_with_ tags.
