MCYT BUR Thread

BUR #28365 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Most of the Empires SMP members play two different characters that typically share a name, but have a different appearance and rule a different empire. The only exceptions are PearlescentMoon and FalseSymmetry, since the former is a season 1 only member and the latter joined in season 2, but they still benefit from tags for consistency. (Also in False's case her Hermitcraft counterpart also shows up in Empires, so dual persona shenanigans ensue, a la post #7797973.)

The qualifiers are either an officially used title for the character or the name of their empire, if there isn't one. This BUR just implies these chartags to the umbrella tag for the member.

Originally I was just going to do season 1 and 2 copyright tags, but then I realized that takes up an entire search for non-Gold members to just look for a single character, and also doesn't exactly work if someone decides to portray a season 1 character with a season 2 character. (The majority of Minecraft series are nowhere near this complicated, thank the lord...)

BUR #28400 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication tales_from_the_smp -> dream_smp

Let me turn just this thread into a dedicated MCYT request containment thread, actually, keeping them in one place like the vtubers seems ideal.

Anyways, just implying spinoff to main copyright tag.

The bulk update request #28400 (forum #292191) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Nothing makes me feel old as fuck quite like approving umbrella tags for minecraft youtubers. Truly the age of danbooru zoomers has begun.

The bulk update request #28365 (forum #292041) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

nonamethanks said:

Nothing makes me feel old as fuck quite like approving umbrella tags for minecraft youtubers. Truly the age of danbooru zoomers has begun.

I'm in my 20s if that makes it even worse, hahahaha

BUR #28585 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication afterlife_smp -> minecraft_youtube
create implication dream_smp -> minecraft_youtube
create implication empires_smp -> minecraft_youtube
create implication hermitcraft -> minecraft_youtube
create implication karmaland -> minecraft_youtube
create implication lifesteal_smp -> minecraft_youtube
create implication mc_championship -> minecraft_youtube
create implication minecraft_manhunt -> minecraft_youtube
create implication new_life_smp -> minecraft_youtube
create implication origins_smp -> minecraft_youtube
create implication quackity_smp -> minecraft_youtube
create implication smplive -> minecraft_youtube
create implication traffic_life_series -> minecraft_youtube

All of these copyrights are under the MCYT umbrella; when I originally made the minecraft_youtube copytag I wanted to hold off on a BUR request until more of these servers had enough posts for it, but that seems to be the case now.

The wiki says the minecraft youtube tag only applies to post-2019 survival multiplayer series. If it doesn't apply to all minecraft youtube content (post #4147569), it should be called something else.

The main issue here is that Minecraft Youtube (often abbreviated as MCYT) is the exact term used for these sorts of series being asked for implication. And there's not really any good way around it, to be honest. While I admit that this is not an area I'm familiar with at all besides a baseline familiarity, this is the name I've always heard them be referred to by, and I feel fairly confident in assuming the people searching for this sort of thing are going to first jump to when searching for. With this in mind, I think trying to change the name would probably harm these tags more than anything. It's just how it is referred to outside Danbooru, regardless of whether or not things like post #4147569 are technically Minecraft Youtube but probably not what someone actually searching the tag would want to see.

But what do I know? Just giving my two cents as someone who knows one or two people into these things.

Minecraft Youtube was also the term being used 10+ years ago. Is it really unambiguously used to refer to only modern series now?
Worth noting, hermitcraft started in 2012 which would make it ineligible for the minecraft youtube tag by current definition.
Possibly relevant reading: https://fanlore.org/wiki/MCYT

It's not unambiguously modern series only (I'm currently running an MCYT fic exchange and we've got Yogscast guys; Hermitcraft is one of the biggest fandoms in the MCYT space) but neither is it all minecraft-related content on Youtube and in particular I have literally never seen anyone try to include Pewdiepie. All of the listed subfandoms are things that I regularly see tagged with "mcyt fanart", but unfortunately it is kind of a fuzzy category. (For what it's worth, I didn't put "post 2019" on the wiki and I don't know the reasoning of whoever did.)

malachite_reaper said:

It's not unambiguously modern series only (I'm currently running an MCYT fic exchange and we've got Yogscast guys; Hermitcraft is one of the biggest fandoms in the MCYT space) but neither is it all minecraft-related content on Youtube and in particular I have literally never seen anyone try to include Pewdiepie. All of the listed subfandoms are things that I regularly see tagged with "mcyt fanart", but unfortunately it is kind of a fuzzy category. (For what it's worth, I didn't put "post 2019" on the wiki and I don't know the reasoning of whoever did.)

The term also doesn't originate from 2019 so I don't know why it's there either. It was in use as early as 2015. I believe this is a misconception stemming from SMPLive reigniting the overall scene around that time, and people being unfamiliar with the older fandom as the modern fandom is much louder and much larger.

PewDiePie isn't culturally a part of the overarching MCYT scene, he just played Minecraft once. Stuff like him and most vtubers are not what people searching the tag would want to see.

I removed the post-2019 thing from the wiki and added a note about the term being a more cultural term than a literally descriptive one - it's a scene that has a huge amount of overlap and collaboration. It's not uncommon to see Hermitcraft members collaborating with (former) Dream SMP members, for example, but someone like PewDiePie doesn't have those same connections. InTheLittleWood was a Yogscast member, but he's also a modern MCYT creator who's involved in many different groups.

malachite_reaper said:

(For what it's worth, I didn't put "post 2019" on the wiki and I don't know the reasoning of whoever did.)

That would be me that did that, and I had given you the reasoning for it at the time when you created the wiki, writing "always try to be as specific as you can, to avoid confusion for those unaware. Look at the way I updated the minecraft_youtube wiki for example. Your original wiki was previously immensely vague, and didn't point to the usage of 'Minecraft YouTube'/'MCYT' as a specific phenomena (i.e. the SMPs and all). Just saying 'Minecraft YouTube' to someone is just as likely to make them think of Seananners or CaptainSparklez as it does Dream or Technoblade, when the latter is what folks are using the term for these days." Though technically that reasoning doesn't explain why I chose to put in "post-2019", at which point I should probably explain myself.

While the term MCYT has been in active use as early as 2015, the impression I have of the scene is how it just blew up from 2019 onward, as Fanlore indicates with the modern scene getting a resurgence from that year on. Adding to that, for me and, I assume, many, many others, they gained their familiarity with MCYT with Dream's Manhunt videos, which exploded in 2020, and hearing about the SMPs around that same time (though not engaging with them). So while the scene has been around for ages, the fandom that exists now and is fueling the fanart being posted is far more recent, is the impression I have at least. So, in an effort to make the wiki more specific, I just plopped "post-2019" in since that pretty much eliminates most conventional Minecraft YouTubers that'd people generally think of from the old days who'd otherwise have no connection to the scene - no Yogscast, no Creatures, no Seananners or CaptainSparklez, etc - a generalizing stroke to force the reader to do more research, basically. Not that that stopped mistags, mind you - even after making that edit, someone slapped the tag on Colorful Peach and post #7571904, literally unassociated.

Heartcatcher said:

I removed the post-2019 thing from the wiki and added a note about the term being a more cultural term than a literally descriptive one - it's a scene that has a huge amount of overlap and collaboration. It's not uncommon to see Hermitcraft members collaborating with (former) Dream SMP members, for example, but someone like PewDiePie doesn't have those same connections. InTheLittleWood was a Yogscast member, but he's also a modern MCYT creator who's involved in many different groups.

While I get the reasoning for removing the 'post-2019' element from the wiki, I think its absence is going to cause problems, because the starting sentence "A term generally used to refer to Western Minecraft content on platforms such as YouTube and Twitch" feels incongruent with the paragraph below about it being applied on a cultural level. Also, I feel as though most folks would just read that starting sentence, look at the tag name again, peace out, and use the tag on something like post #4147569. You have to incorporate something in that starting sentence that'll make someone reading the wiki go "wait, this doesn't apply to all Minecraft YouTubers?" because otherwise you'll just see the tag used literally per its name, as gfz in his first post here highlighted.

Damian0358 said:

That would be me that did that, and I had given you the reasoning for it at the time when you created the wiki, writing "always try to be as specific as you can, to avoid confusion for those unaware. Look at the way I updated the minecraft_youtube wiki for example. Your original wiki was previously immensely vague, and didn't point to the usage of 'Minecraft YouTube'/'MCYT' as a specific phenomena (i.e. the SMPs and all). Just saying 'Minecraft YouTube' to someone is just as likely to make them think of Seananners or CaptainSparklez as it does Dream or Technoblade, when the latter is what folks are using the term for these days." Though technically that reasoning doesn't explain why I chose to put in "post-2019", at which point I should probably explain myself.

While the term MCYT has been in active use as early as 2015, the impression I have of the scene is how it just blew up from 2019 onward, as Fanlore indicates with the modern scene getting a resurgence from that year on. Adding to that, for me and, I assume, many, many others, they gained their familiarity with MCYT with Dream's Manhunt videos, which exploded in 2020, and hearing about the SMPs around that same time (though not engaging with them). So while the scene has been around for ages, the fandom that exists now and is fueling the fanart being posted is far more recent, is the impression I have at least. So, in an effort to make the wiki more specific, I just plopped "post-2019" in since that pretty much eliminates most conventional Minecraft YouTubers that'd people generally think of from the old days who'd otherwise have no connection to the scene - no Yogscast, no Creatures, no Seananners or CaptainSparklez, etc - a generalizing stroke to force the reader to do more research, basically. Not that that stopped mistags, mind you - even after making that edit, someone slapped the tag on Colorful Peach and post #7571904, literally unassociated.

While I get the reasoning for removing the 'post-2019' element from the wiki, I think its absence is going to cause problems, because the starting sentence "A term generally used to refer to Western Minecraft content on platforms such as YouTube and Twitch" feels incongruent with the paragraph below about it being applied on a cultural level. Also, I feel as though most folks would just read that starting sentence, look at the tag name again, peace out, and use the tag on something like post #4147569. You have to incorporate something in that starting sentence that'll make someone reading the wiki go "wait, this doesn't apply to all Minecraft YouTubers?" because otherwise you'll just see the tag used literally per its name, as gfz in his first post here highlighted.

The modern and older Western scenes aren't actually that disconnected. CaptainSparklez for example was in SMPLive, SMPEarth, Origins SMP, SDMP, MC Championship... Yogscast does a collaborative event with MCC and InTheLittleWood is a member of Traffic Life Series and Rats SMP...

The year isn't the factor that defines the cultural scene, especially since the term MCYT was coined in at least 2015. It's the collaborative nature and sense of community that ties all of these series together as they tend to share members and collaborate outside of their respective series. I've followed the scene since at least 2014 and many of the names from then are still here.

While I feel there's probably a better way to word the wiki to make it clearer, "post-2019" is blatantly an incorrect line to draw. Also PewDiePie's MC series was in 2019 so that wouldn't stop people from thinking it applies anyways.

Honestly, if it weren't for some posts having no better copyright to apply, I'd argue it should be in general like Virtual YouTuber because it's just as vague. "MCYT" honestly would make for a better tag name that people would be less likely to misuse.

BUR #28618 has been rejected.

create alias minecraft_youtube -> mcyt

I believe this cuts out most of the ambiguity and misuse because MCYT as a term is much more narrowly used for the specific scene being referenced than "Minecraft YouTube" is. Most people would call Yogscast and Hermitcraft MCYT, because they're involved with the community, but they wouldn't call PewDiePie's series MCYT because he has no connections to the wider scene.

I think it's better to have a less generalized tag name than to apply incorrect restrictions in the wiki - post-2019 is a bad cutoff anyways because SMPLive was from 2019 and caused the SMP resurgence, and it would exclude like, older seasons of Hermitcraft despite HC being one of the largest series in the MCYT scene.

Also MCYT is just the common nomenclature both among fans of the scene and non-fans, anyways. I don't think I've ever heard someone just call it "Minecraft YouTube".

Heartcatcher said:

The year isn't the factor that defines the cultural scene, especially since the term MCYT was coined in at least 2015. It's the collaborative nature and sense of community that ties all of these series together as they tend to share members and collaborate outside of their respective series. I've followed the scene since at least 2014 and many of the names from then are still here.

While I feel there's probably a better way to word the wiki to make it clearer, "post-2019" is blatantly an incorrect line to draw - post-2019 is a bad cutoff anyways because SMPLive was from 2019 and caused the SMP resurgence, and it would exclude like, older seasons of Hermitcraft despite HC being one of the largest series in the MCYT scene.

And I don't disagree with that! I'm just highlighting that there needs to be something in the wiki's first sentence to avoid mistagging, because it's back to being somewhat vague on what it applies to. "post-2019" wasn't the solution, but you can at least see what I was trying to do.

Honestly, if it weren't for some posts having no better copyright to apply, I'd argue it should be in general like Virtual YouTuber because it's just as vague. "MCYT" honestly would make for a better tag name that people would be less likely to misuse.

Eh, I don't know about either. Given the precedent set by Indie Virtual YouTuber and Indie Utaite (and calls for there to be a copytag for regular ass content creators, so they don't just get lost in original or real life), there's certainly a case to be made for Minecraft YouTube to be a copytag, and while "MCYT" would potentially be a better less-ambiguous name, it's still just a shortening of the more commonly-used phrase. You'd ultimately have minecraft_youtube aliased to it, which brings up back to square one...

I wrote this before you made your BUR, wow, I cannot believe I accidentally predicted that.

Damian0358 said:

And I don't disagree with that! I'm just highlighting that there needs to be something in the wiki's first sentence to avoid mistagging, because it's back to being somewhat vague on what it applies to. "post-2019" wasn't the solution, but you can at least see what I was trying to do.

Definitely, yeah. I don't blame you because like I said, 2019 is about the point where the scene started to blow up.

Eh, I don't know about either. Given the precedent set by Indie Virtual YouTuber and Indie Utaite (and calls for there to be a copytag for regular ass content creators, so they don't just get lost in original or real life), there's certainly a case to be made for Minecraft YouTube to be a copytag, and while "MCYT" would potentially be a better less-ambiguous name, it's still just a shortening of the more commonly-used phrase. You'd ultimately have minecraft_youtube aliased to it, which brings up back to square one...

I wrote this before you made your BUR, wow, I cannot believe I accidentally predicted that.

Oh yeah, 100%, (and it'd be really annoying if people tried tagging stuff like post #7730499 as real life), I was sort of just thinking about how this vagueness causes issues. I don't actually think I'd make the argument for it being general, but it was a frustrating little thought that came into my mind.

Honestly, I don't actually plan to keep it aliased, I just can't do a rename because of the size. Mass update, maybe? I dunno. While "MCYT" is a shortening, it's a shortening that has a lot more associations with a specific group rather than an entire concept.

BUR #28620 has been rejected.

create alias quackity_smp -> qsmp
rename dapper_(quackity_smp) -> dapper_(qsmp)
rename pomme_(quackity_smp) -> pomme_(qsmp)
rename leonarda_(quackity_smp) -> leonarda_(qsmp)
rename bobby_(quackity_smp) -> bobby_(qsmp)
rename richarlyson_(quackity_smp) -> richarlyson_(qsmp)
rename tallulah_(quackity_smp) -> tallulah_(qsmp)

On an unrelated to the above note, this is... Incorrect? The official title of this series is just QSMP:

https://qsmp.co/en/
https://qsmp.shop/

While the lengthened form is Quackity SMP, it's not used at all in branding.

Heartcatcher said:

Honestly, I don't actually plan to keep it aliased, I just can't do a rename because of the size. Mass update, maybe? I dunno. While "MCYT" is a shortening, it's a shortening that has a lot more associations with a specific group rather than an entire concept.

That's the thing though, I don't think a dealiasing BUR would go through, in my opinion at least. Even if you change the main tag to "MCYT" you'd need some sort of utility alias given how short it is and, even if it is a term with fairly specific associations, wouldn't be the main thing an outsider looking to tag stuff would look for first. Even Fanlore has a Minecraft YouTube redirect, so again, back to square one. And the tag name doesn't resolve the wiki issue, since the mcyt wiki would still have that vague first sentence.

Damian0358 said:

That's the thing though, I don't think a dealiasing BUR would go through, in my opinion at least. Even if you change the main tag to "MCYT" you'd need some sort of utility alias given how short it is and, even if it is a term with fairly specific associations, wouldn't be the main thing an outsider looking to tag stuff would look for first. Even Fanlore has a Minecraft YouTube redirect, so again, back to square one. And the tag name doesn't resolve the wiki issue, since the mcyt wiki would still have that vague first sentence.

I honestly don't know what else to do in this case, besides make the wiki more clear, but since post-2019 doesn't work I'm not entirely sure how else to go about it. I'm kinda just throwing ideas at the wall to see what sticks, I guess.

I think for now leaving the tag itself alone and trying to improve the wiki might be best, and I'm not sure if I'm keen on implying anything to it just yet.