Cataloguing Limbus/Project moon E.G.O and Identities

Previous discussion: topic #25195

General recap for people who want to gaze in the abyss:

- Project Moon games feature E.G.O equipment, which are basically clothes and weapon extracted from abnormalities (monsters) or manifested. Example: post #7375927, post #6965027. Multiple characters can wear them, but they all have roughly the same appearance across characters. There is currently no way of searching for a specific E.G.O equipment, and the e.g.o equipment tag contains 2.5k tags. Some of the posts use the character tag of the abnormalities the E.G.O equipment is from in order to tag them (eg. post #7454325).
- Limbus Company takes things a little further, adding "Identities", which in short can be seen as "What if this character worked in this place? What if they were working there instead?". What matters to Danbooru is that they're alternate realities of the same character, so they're wearing different clothes. Note that this applies to exactly 12 characters at the moment (with exceptions). The largest of said character tags are 1k+, and within it they have 40 different outfits.

With that said,

Proposed solutions

I will tackle E.G.O and Identities separately, to make things hopefully clearer.

- E.G.Os

My proposal is to make a general tag. That way equipment can easily be tagged between all characters, including those without a name (namely Employee.
As for what to name them, there are two options. We can either use the name of the abnormality, or the name of the equipment.
For example, Scorched Girl's E.G.O name would be 4th Match Flame. But a naming scheme such as 4th Match Flame (e.g.o), Magic Bullet (e.g.o), Lamp (e.g.o) would be kind of non-descriptive at best for people who aren't familiar with the copyright. And for those who are, there might be people who remember the name of the abnormalities but not that of the E.G.O equipment (such as me!). Some of the names aren't even revealed until they get officially released, too.

Because of that, it may be for the best to go for a Scorching Girl (e.g.o) (project moon), der_freischuetz_(e.g.o)_(project_moon), Big Bird (e.g.o) (project moon) naming scheme. I am however open to suggestions.

Do note that some of the aforementioned Identities from Limbus can be E.G.Os, but for the sake of everyone's sanity I would suggest to treat them as E.G.Os, not as Identities.

- Identities

Option 1): The Standard
This is the one I like the least. Each character gets its own chartag. So we'd have Faust (N Corp) (Project Moon), Faust (Seven Office) (Project Moon), Heathcliff (Seven Office) (Project Moon), etc.
Needless to say that would make each of the aforementioned 12 characters end up with about 15 character tags each by the end of the year. That is, as the kids say, suboptimal.

Option 2: The Elegant Solution
Which is why I want to propose this instead: Faction identities get their own gentag.
So for example, N Corp (Identity) would bring all N Fausts, N Sinclairs, N Heathcliffs, under a single tag, without hurting the character tag count and removing the need for maintenance (nobody has to implicate every single outfit).
An added benefit is that it would also cover unofficial Identities: for example K Corp (Identity) (Project Moon) lets post #7623890 be tagged, despite it not being an official Identity.

All of the Identity faction gentags can then be implied under a single Identity (Project Moon) gentag, which could also help cover unofficial Identities (for example post #7467051).

Conclusion/TL;DR
My proposal is that E.G.O Equipment and Identity factions get gentags.
I would like to hear others' opinions.

Considering the amount of idol outfit sets there are out there in, say, Idolmaster being used without complaint (as far as I know), I don't see why the various E.G.O. sets can't be treated the same way. I think the official names for the E.G.O sets is fine, and I find using "Abnormality (E.G.O.)" to be kinda unwieldy and can see it being confusing to someone not in the loop ("Why is "Big Bird (E.G.O.) (Project Moon)" a gentag and not a chartag?"), especially since the official names for things tend to be preferred when it comes to Danbooru tag names (which could result in someone misunderstanding why we use "Big Bird (E.G.O.) (Project Moon)" as opposed to "Lamp (E.G.O.) (Project Moon)" in this hypothetical scenario and maybe doing something foolish...though I could just be overthinking as I tend to, especially with the existence of cosplay tags). Although I do sympathize with not remembering E.G.O. sets off the top of your head (I know I certainly can't name all of them). I think in either case, aliasing the unused naming scheme to the used scheme would be rather beneficial, so that way people can have an easier time finding them regardless of preference or ability to remember names. We can probably use that "Abnormality (E.G.O.)" structure in the cases of the ones with currently unnamed sets and alias them to their proper names later if/when they're revealed if we go with the official set names.

My main issue with these hypothetical tags, at least in regards to Employee characters, is this question: Should the set tag name, regardless of the scheme we use, be restricted to only depictions of that full set (like as seen in pool #20349)? Some depictions of Employee characters get so stacked with E.G.O. that it becomes troublesome to tag by sets present (like post #6524899), not to mention I don't think such posts are what people searching said set really want to see. Weapon could probably be optional if we limit to the full set though, in order to not needlessly exclude Employee posts that otherwise would qualify. But more opinions on this would be much appreciated.

In any case, I wholeheartedly agree the E.G.O. set tags should be gentags that people should be able to easily search for, especially since Library of Ruina and especially Limbus Company show named characters in these full sets and not just Employees and Librarians. Besides, the E.G.O. sets are effectively costumes in their own right I'd love to search for. I'm certain many other people feel the same way.

Now, I'm not familiar enough with Limbus Company to really have an opinion on the identity factions, but I will drop my own two cents on things from what I do know: considering the amount of implications for named copy abilities for Kirby I had to do, not to mention the fact that Limbus Company has twelve characters to worry about as opposed to just one, I can easily see the implication route turning into a hideous nightmare that can easily be sidestepped by just using a faction gentag. I just hope if we use the faction gentag solution, people don't mistake it for an actual faction gentag (you know, the ones where everyone in a particular group are all together in one image).

BUR #27346 has been rejected.

create implication n_corp._(identity)_(project_moon) -> identity_(project_moon)

I'd like this to serve as general poll on whether we want to do identities this way or not

BUR #27348 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Alternate BUR to the one proposed in topic #27649. Basically nukes these character tags and converts them to general identity/e.g.o tags.

EDIT: fixed the last two mass updates, I forgot the _(Project_Moon) at the end of them

BUR #27554 has been rejected.

Because new tags are being created to better differentiate between and identify specific ego's, the currently used ego tags should imply the e.g.o general tag.
(As new e.g.o tag are added, I will update this BUR with each new E.G.O added.)

Hm...Would it be useful to go into the E.G.O (Project Moon) tag and create tags for all known E.G.O names? Might save some time in the end to bite the bullet now, but I don't wanna make any snap decisions when we still gotta see the current BURs get approved first.

Using E.G.O. for a qualifier is a god awful idea when it's not a copyright and it's just downright confusing. I don't understand why anyone would think this is a good idea and not opening a massive can of Surströmming as far as tagging consistency goes.

Knowledge_Seeker said:

Hm...Would it be useful to go into the E.G.O (Project Moon) tag and create tags for all known E.G.O names? Might save some time in the end to bite the bullet now, but I don't wanna make any snap decisions when we still gotta see the current BURs get approved first.

I'm waiting for the BURs to be approved, but in the meanwhile you could make some favgroup

GreyOmega said:

Using E.G.O. for a qualifier is a god awful idea when it's not a copyright and it's just downright confusing. I don't understand why anyone would think this is a good idea and not opening a massive can of Surströmming as far as tagging consistency goes.

It's not like it's not being done already, see mecha-fiora_(speed_cowling)
That said, do you have any alternative? *_(e.g.o_equipment)?
There are a lot of copyright-specific gentags without qualifiers already, and this is going to be entirely localized within project moon. If need be they can be changed, it's easy to find them through a *_(e.g.o) tag search. I don't think we should worry too much.

Sooo are we gonna tag LC/Ruina egos? And if so, how do we go about duplicate names?
For now it's just Faelantern/Meat Lantern's ego (Lantern)at least i think there's no other dupes. And they're both in Limbus.

Shibi said:

Sooo are we gonna tag LC/Ruina egos? And if so, how do we go about duplicate names?

Obviously, and I want to say that the issue is so minor at this moment that we can think about it later.

Login_to_view said:

Obviously, and I want to say that the issue is so minor at this moment that we can think about it later.

Alrighty then.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

Let me get this straight: e.g.o (project moon) is just "official alternate costume but project moon", right? Why should we keep this tag when we nuked other tags like remodel (kantai collection)? I don't see a reason to have an umbrella tag when we can just tag the individual costumes.

I agree that having these be costume tags doesn't make much sense if there's a dozen characters sharing the costume for most of these.

GreyOmega said:

Using E.G.O. for a qualifier is a god awful idea when it's not a copyright and it's just downright confusing. I don't understand why anyone would think this is a good idea and not opening a massive can of Surströmming as far as tagging consistency goes.

Yeah, the qualifier should just be (project moon) unless there's cases where a character and a costume have the same name and could cause confusion. The problem is that a lot of these are named after characters, so my understanding is that there would be a lot of cases that would cause confusion.

nonamethanks said:

Let me get this straight: e.g.o (project moon) is just "official alternate costume but project moon", right? Why should we keep this tag when we nuked other tags like remodel (kantai collection)? I don't see a reason to have an umbrella tag when we can just tag the individual costumes.

No:

1) E.G.O equipment includes accessories and weapons. Gebura (project moon) for example wields an E.G.O weapon (post #5639603, her sword), but doesn't necessarily wear something different from her usual clothes.

2) They are not necessarily official alternate costumes. For example, sometimes there is art of an E.G.O that hasn't been released yet, but based on an abnormality. For example, post #7355756 and post #7742362 were drawn before the official release (post #7889736). And besides, employees do not have "official outfits", and they usually feature a mix and match of various E.G.Os like in-game (post #7895089 for example)

3) Remodel (kantai collection) has a few big differences: They refer to a single set of official clothing, and they are on a single character. E.G.O on the other hand can have multiple designs (both official or not, for example post #7867943 is completely different from the official design (post #6474140), but is still based on the same abnormality (king of greed)), can be put on multiple characters, and a single character can wear multiple. When it's unofficial they do not have official names, and thus we wouldn't be able to give it a tag of its own.

Ok, so "e.g.o" are basically costumes that resemble named monsters, such as alleyway_watchdog_(project_moon) the monster vs telepole (e.g.o) the costume based on it. They can be worn by multiple characters. Correct? For these I understand the utility for an umbrella tag and the reasoning for having them be gentags instead of chartags.
A major issue I'm seeing with these tags is that currently the tagging is a mess, and the monster tag often appears along with the costume. If we're going down this route, then we need to remove the monster tag when the actual monster doesn't appear. The annoying thing is that these appear to functionally be equivalent to our cosplay tags.

What about identities? The examples I'm seeing look significantly different from one another, why should we have technology_liberation_alliance_(identity)_(project_moon) instead of individual costume tags for those?

nonamethanks said:

Ok, so "e.g.o" are basically costumes that [snip]. Correct?

Roughly yes (it also includes weapons and accessories but to keep things simple yes)

A major issue I'm seeing with these tags is that currently the tagging is a mess, and the monster tag often appears along with the costume. If we're going down this route, then we need to remove the monster tag when the actual monster doesn't appear.

Yes, that was how it was done in order to distinguish E.G.O equipment. Now that there are proper E.G.O tags, artworks where abnormalities don't appear in should be removed.

The annoying thing is that these appear to functionally be equivalent to our cosplay tags.

Not really:
- Compare Yi Sang's 4th Match Flame outfit (post #6111121, left char) to the abnormality it's based on (Scorched girl, wiki)
- Some do not come from any abnormality in particular, but instead are manifested by the character itself, for example Xiao (post #6518264). Those do not usually have a name, but also aren't shared between multiple characters officially (with the exception of limbus company Identities, for example dongbaek's spicebush (e.g.o) (post #6940562) appeared later as an identity for Yi Sang (post #7787281), more on that in the following paragraph)

What about identities? The examples I'm seeing look significantly different from one another, why should we have technology_liberation_alliance_(identity)_(project_moon) instead of individual costume tags for those?

Let it be known that this is the 6th time I am rewriting this sentence to be as clear as possible.
For clarity's sake, I'm going to assume that you're only referring to that specific group and not Identities as a whole.

Identities usually consist of the Limbus playable cast impersonating other characters.
However! Sometimes they impersonate other characters that use E.G.O equipment, so those E.G.Os become Identities too. So far that is the only "large" faction that has such equipment.
If we consider them like alternate universes, then the tag would help find artworks of them interacting with each other. For example, post #7787285.
I wouldn't mind if we went the E.G.O route for them though, althought I'm slightly reticent about that because there are three sunshower (e.g.o), and only Heathcliff's is an identity.

...Don't think too hard about it, I swear I/we'll take care of it. Otherwise I'd have to explain Walpurgisnacht identities too.

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 45 days.

The bulk update request #27346 (forum #284862) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 45 days.

The bulk update request #27348 (forum #284870) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.