PGR tags implication and renaming BUR

BUR #19994 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Hello there,

A BUR for implications and renames for PGR character tags.

Following up on a previous BUR (topic #24038) attempt at adding implications for most of the PGR character tags and their respective version/skins, so that each skin implies the frame, and each frame implies the character, as per forum post 24038 initially envisioned. All of the imply requests listed above have their wiki pages set up and there shouldn't be any empty tag implications. When more wiki pages are being written, I (or other PGR gardener(s)) will submit another BUR for the stragglers, so to avoid getting empty implications.

The tail-end of this BUR is a renaming request, a new patch released in global, and with it some official translations released.
Haicma's skin is now 'Fantastical Fellowship'
'Bianca: Abystigma' is now 'Bianca: Stigmata'

Thank you for your time.

And while we have some PGR gardeners looking at this thread, I'd also like to bring up the notion of nuking luna_(ascendant)_(punishing:_gray_raven). That as a tag is not (or no longer) applicable, since Laurel is also an 'Ascendant' form of Luna, that appearance of her can simply be included under the overarching character tag: luna_(punishing:_gray_raven).

Or perhaps a tag with only 4 posts doesn't warrant a nuke, and manual removal would suffice...?

The simpler the tags the better, but they should also provide some information I think having a tag for the character and a tag for the frame would be ideal, having tags for skin would be an extra, but I don't know if that would be viable as there aren't as many users constantly checking PGR related tags.

Tags like luna_(ascendant)_(punishing:_gray_raven) just complicate things and I don't see any need in them unless it's a major form change, like Selena and Selena when she was inside the Siren

What is a frame in the context of Punishing: Gray Raven? Why are we doing skin -> frame -> character and not skin -> character?

That is, why do we have this:

• Lucia
• Lucia: Lotus
• Lucia: Lotus (Daybreak)
• Lucia: Lotus (Rain Walking)
• Lucia: Dawn
• Lucia: Dawn (Gray Feathers: dawn)
• Lucia: Dawn (Holiday of Eden)
• Lucia: Plume
• Lucia: Plume (Eventide Glow)
• Lucia: Plume (Dance of Ripplets)

Instead of this:

• Lucia
• Lucia: Lotus (Daybreak)
• Lucia: Lotus (Rain Walking)
• Lucia: Dawn (Gray Feathers: Dawn)
• Lucia: Dawn (Holiday of Eden)
• Lucia: Plume (Eventide Glow)
• Lucia: Plume (Dance of Ripplets)

Or this:

• Lucia: Lotus
• Lucia: Lotus (Daybreak)
• Lucia: Lotus (Rain Walking)
• Lucia: Dawn
• Lucia: Dawn (Gray Feathers: dawn)
• Lucia: Dawn (Holiday of Eden)
• Lucia: Plume
• Lucia: Plume (Eventide Glow)
• Lucia: Plume (Dance of Ripplets)

People already complain about having two chartags per character; three per character is getting to be too much even for me. We sometimes have that in Fate but I try to avoid it as much as possible.

evazion said:

What is a frame in the context of Punishing: Gray Raven?

I believe it was trying to mimic what Honkai Impact 3rd was doing. A frame is an actual playable version of a character, like Honkai Impact's different playable Valkyrja forms for their characters. Example being Kiana Kaslana having Kiana Kaslana (White Comet), Kiana Kaslana (Valkyrie Ranger) and 6 more, but all of the different version of Kiana all links back to Kiana Kaslana as a catch-all tag. But it doesn't achieve the same effect on PGR, as it is a much lesser known mobile game, and a lot less artworks for it.

So Lucia has frames: Lucia: Lotus, Lucia: Dawn and Lucia: Plume, and all three frames implies back to Lucia the character tag.

But different to Honkai, PGR has skins for individual playable frames, and those are being tagged and being suggested to be implied back to their respective frames. For example Dawn has Gray Feathers: Dawn and Holiday of Eden, both being implied back to Dawn.

• Lucia: Lotus
• Lucia: Lotus (Daybreak)
• Lucia: Lotus (Rain Walking)
• Lucia: Dawn
• Lucia: Dawn (Gray Feathers: dawn)
• Lucia: Dawn (Holiday of Eden)
• Lucia: Plume
• Lucia: Plume (Eventide Glow)
• Lucia: Plume (Dance of Ripplets)

Skipping out the main character tag wouldn't be viable I believe, because the general catch-all character tag can still be used for arts where the frame version cannot be determined/intentionally not depicted (post #6539470) and non-playable game CG appearances (post #5917960).

• Lucia
• Lucia: Lotus (Daybreak)
• Lucia: Lotus (Rain Walking)
• Lucia: Dawn (Gray Feathers: Dawn)
• Lucia: Dawn (Holiday of Eden)
• Lucia: Plume (Eventide Glow)
• Lucia: Plume (Dance of Ripplets)

This is a good layout, putting the skins on the same level as their frame, no need to add in a second layer of implication. So it will look like:

• Lucia (Character)
• Lucia: Lotus (Default)
• Lucia: Lotus (Daybreak) (Skin 1)
• Lucia: Lotus (Rain Walking) (Skin 2)

This way it can also cut down the number of character tags (on a typical solo character post) down to 2, as the default cannot exist with a skin.

Self bump, I've changed up the BUR to fit the:

• Character
• Default frame
• Alternative outfit

format, putting the costumes on the same hierarchial level as the default frame and having it imply back simply to the character tag, as Evazion's suggestion.

Ajisaiii said:

And while we have some PGR gardeners looking at this thread, I'd also like to bring up the notion of nuking luna_(ascendant)_(punishing:_gray_raven). That as a tag is not (or no longer) applicable, since Laurel is also an 'Ascendant' form of Luna, that appearance of her can simply be included under the overarching character tag: luna_(punishing:_gray_raven).

Or perhaps a tag with only 4 posts doesn't warrant a nuke, and manual removal would suffice...?

I created it because it was, if I understood well, the first form of Luna before the Laurel frame. maybe the name it isn't the best, but the sense it was to distinguish a certain form of that character
personally i was thinking to do the same also for the old form of Lamia
Luna_(ascendant) could be renamed luna_(npc)

Wolf_of_Gubbio said:

I created it because it was, if I understood well, the first form of Luna before the Laurel frame. maybe the name it isn't the best, but the sense it was to distinguish a certain form of that character
personally i was thinking to do the same also for the old form of Lamia
Luna_(ascendant) could be renamed luna_(npc)

Yes you are right about the first form, in the story she showed up in the new form (Laurel) and that became the playable version of her when the Fake Ascension patch released.

Similar to Roland and his Flambeau appearance being different to his NPC/Boss appearance, and of course the latest being Lamia and the 'Lost Lullaby' frame.

The idea is that since there are very little artwork depicts Luna in that form with the broken horn, it can just be labelled under the general character tag Luna, as it is currently used to cover all non-playable appearances and aged down versions of the characters. And that should help cut down on the amount of tags present for PGR. But however Lamia's boss appearance does have far more artworks than the 'broken horn Luna', it is also very different from Lost Lullaby visually.

Also, updated a few more implications into the BUR.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

The bulk update request #19994 (forum #254528) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #25110 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Second batch of PGR char/frame/skin implication request/fixes plus a few renames!

One of Rosetta's skin was wrongly named, missed a letter L. Luna (Ascendant) to be changed to (NPC) for consistency sake with the other characters. Bianca's Snow Petals skin was voted to be Solitary Dream by the community before release and it localised as such.

Liv Empyrea Dreamcatcher was implied wrongly to the frame still instead of the character, so untethering that one.

Creating alias 'Lena' for Alisa as she was introduced in-game as Lena first, 'Ishmael' for The Merciful One as it her other name.

More to come with wiki completions, thanks!

BUR #25111 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Bianca

BUR #25112 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Liv

The bulk update request #25111 (forum #276293) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

The bulk update request #25112 (forum #276294) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #25937 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication hanying:_zitherwoe_(heartseeker)_(punishing:_gray_raven) -> hanying:_zitherwoe_(punishing:_gray_raven)

Costume implication missed in the previous mass implication request (only has implication for Hanying: Zitherwoe to Hanying).

The bulk update request #25937 (forum #279490) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #26569 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

rename rosetta:_rigor_(howing_crown)_(punishing:_gray_raven) -> rosetta:_rigor_(howling_crown)_(punishing:_gray_raven)
rename luna_(ascendant)_(punishing:_gray_raven) -> luna_(npc)_(punishing:_gray_raven)
rename bianca:_stigmata_(snow_petals)_(punishing:_gray_raven) -> bianca:_stigmata_(solitary_dream)_(punishing:_gray_raven)

Have to split this because of validation errors.

The bulk update request #26569 (forum #281980) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #26570 has been rejected.

remove implication liv:_empyrea_(dreamcatcher)_(punishing:_gray_raven) -> liv:_empyrea_(punishing:_gray_raven)
create implication liv:_empyrea_(dreamcatcher)_(punishing:_gray_raven) -> liv_(punishing:_gray_raven)

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