Posted under Tags
BUR #18639 has been rejected.
create implication idol_(yoasobi) -> yoasobi
I don't know what's standard practice in cases like this, but it seems that for idol_(yoasobi) this is mostly how it's being used already (see post count for idol_(yoasobi) -yoasobi versus idol_(yoasobi)).
This does seem to reflect the status quo, but should we really be tagging all the idol posts with yoasobi in the first place? Art referencing the MV tends to be more related to Oshi no Ko than to Yoasobi, visually. Having a tag for the song separate from Oshi makes is fair -- the MV has distinct stuff like the famous vibing Ai loop -- but tagging all those with yoasobi as well is currently drowning out stuff that has more to do with the group itself. Wouldn't it make more sense not to tag yoasobi unless there's audio or some direct reference to the group?
Super_Affection said:
This does seem to reflect the status quo, but should we really be tagging all the idol posts with yoasobi in the first place? Art referencing the MV tends to be more related to Oshi no Ko than to Yoasobi, visually. Having a tag for the song separate from Oshi makes is fair -- the MV has distinct stuff like the famous vibing Ai loop -- but tagging all those with yoasobi as well is currently drowning out stuff that has more to do with the group itself. Wouldn't it make more sense not to tag yoasobi unless there's audio or some direct reference to the group?
I can definitely see where you're coming from, but part of me just feels weird about not tagging a copytag directly related to Yoasobi with Yoasobi.
I don't think drowning out the rest should really be a reason not to do this, as there's plenty of cases where a subtag dominates an overarching copyright tag, and it's quite easy to search for everything else (yoasobi -idol_(yoasobi)).
Reserving Yoasobi for posts relating to the actual group itself and not just specific songs would require making the appropriate copyright tags for posts related to existing songs, but I think it'd work too.
岩戸鈴芽 said:
I don't think drowning out the rest should really be a reason not to do this, as there's plenty of cases where a subtag dominates an overarching copyright tag, and it's quite easy to search for everything else (yoasobi -idol_(yoasobi)).
That works well for now, but when there's another popular copyright with a famous Yoasobi song? May never happen, but if it does keep happening, subtracting everything wouldn't be reasonable forever.
岩戸鈴芽 said:
Reserving Yoasobi for posts relating to the actual group itself and not just specific songs would require making the appropriate copyright tags for posts related to existing songs, but I think it'd work too.
We already have yoru ni kakeru and we have copytags for a ton of vocaloid songs and so on. It works pretty well IMO.
Tagging yoasobi on a fully original song like Yoru ni Kakeru feels more appropriate than one like Idol which is really just an oshi no ko thing. But maybe that's too subjective?
The question is what would you be looking for if you searched for yoasobi? I would guess it's stuff relating to the group or their original songs. I wouldn't think you'd want a bunch of pictures of various people doing Ai poses, but I could be wrong?
Super_Affection said:
Tagging yoasobi on a fully original song like Yoru ni Kakeru feels more appropriate than one like Idol which is really just an oshi no ko thing. But maybe that's too subjective?
I can see where this is coming from, but I think it wouldn't be beneficial to treat a song that's still basically their own song as something belonging to a different copyright. Maybe if there were significant involvement from seiyuus or other forms of collaboration that otherwise wouldn't happen, but that's not really the case here.
Super_Affection said:
The question is what would you be looking for if you searched for yoasobi? I would guess it's stuff relating to the group or their original songs. I wouldn't think you'd want a bunch of pictures of various people doing Ai poses, but I could be wrong?
I think currently the tag is quite well used, so generally for posts that directly reference either the song or it's MV. The nature of this will be that it's a lot of Ai poses or parodies, but that's simply a result of the popularity. If another song were to gain significant popularity I think it'd look quite similar (Usseewa and Odo come to mind).
Actually, taking my previous example, searching usseewa -cloud_nine_inc shows that in this case only the song is tagged for parodies. However, it is slightly different since the parent tag is not a group but an agency, so honestly I don't really know what the "consensus" is on this, and it seems likely there isn't really a well-established one.
岩戸鈴芽 said:
I can see where this is coming from, but I think it wouldn't be beneficial to treat a song that's still basically their own song as something belonging to a different copyright. Maybe if there were significant involvement from seiyuus or other forms of collaboration that otherwise wouldn't happen, but that's not really the case here.
Fair point. It's their song. I do think it belongs on something like post #6388836 where the song is audible. But what does Yoasobi have to do with post #6417422 for example? That's just a Hoshino Ai cosplay.
(And just to clarify, I'm not a rabid Yoasobi fan saying "keep Oshi out of my searches you whippersnappers". I love Oshi no Ko. I just think all tags should be useful.)
I think currently the tag is quite well used, so generally for posts that directly reference either the song or it's MV. The nature of this will be that it's a lot of Ai poses or parodies, but that's simply a result of the popularity. If another song were to gain significant popularity I think it'd look quite similar (Usseewa and Odo come to mind).
Actually, taking my previous example, searching usseewa -cloud_nine_inc shows that in this case only the song is tagged for parodies. However, it is slightly different since the parent tag is not a group but an agency, so honestly I don't really know what the "consensus" is on this, and it seems likely there isn't really a well-established one.
Those are good examples and I can speak to personal experience here. I have searched for ado but I've never searched for or excluded cloud nine inc and I actually feel like it's a pretty useless tag. When I search for Ado I don't expect to see unrelated characters covering Usseewa, and nobody tags ado on those posts. I've searched for usseewa too, in different circumstances -- ado and usseewa are both useful tags but neither is a subset of the other, and I think the way they're tagged now is logical and useful.
Cloud Nine Inc on the other hand... Does anyone search for it or exclude it? It feels like "the copyright you tag when you tag ado (utaite) or yoshino (utaite) because a copyright tag is required". I think post #6398483 is the one and only post on the site right now where the company is actually relevant (unless there's one out there that doesn't have the tag).
I guess I don't want Yoasobi to become a tag like that. I feel like it should be more like ado (utaite) than cloud nine inc. But again, I don't have 100% conviction on that. I have a hard time describing why I feel the way I feel about it, so maybe it doesn't actually make sense, and I haven't personally searched for yoasobi so I guess I can't say for sure what I'd be looking for if I did. What I know for sure is that tags should be useful for something, so I want to see an example of searching or excluding Yoasobi that works better or worse with a particular tagging strategy if we're going to formalize one.
I agree that there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus, but maybe this is a good opportunity to form one?
The bulk update request #18639 (forum #248942) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.
