Azur Lane Sister ships: Tag as sisters and incest for yuri

I probably should have done this before I started tagging the other day, so if this gets rejected I will undo my tag changes. I assumed the lack of sister and incest tags for sister ships in Azur Lane was just an oversight. I apologize in advance if this is the wrong way to address this.

I believe Azur Lane sister ships should be tagged as sisters, and in cases of yuri tagged with incest.
In game during events and in voice lines, in official works such as comics and the anime, and in the community, sister ships are referred to as sisters and have sisterly relationships. Some examples are the Cleveland class making many references to each other as sisters in their voice lines, as well as Pola and Zara, or Indianapolis and Portland, and others. Many more don’t specifically say “sister” but reference each other repeatedly and show they have a sisterly relationship, such as Prinz Eugen, Admiral Hipper, and Blücher.

There was a previous thread from 8 years ago referring to Kantai Collection. Kantai Collection is obviously different from Azur Lane so I don’t believe that applies here, especially as I don’t believe Kantai Collection treats sister ships as sisters like Azur Lane does.

The two main arguments in that thread, in case there is an argument that they apply to Azur Lane, were some of the ships not knowing each other previously (“the Fubukis meeting each other for the first time”), in Azur Lane, the ships operated outside of the port and already knew each other, and have past memories from before being Kansen, and even if they didn’t, not knowing a sibling previously doesn’t make you not related. The other is they are personifications and not biological, but in this context/universe they are personified as sisters, and Fate tags relationships like Artoria and Mordred as sisters/incest fate_(series) incest.

If the change to tagging for sister and incest is approved for Azur Lane, I will finish tagging the existing posts.

We don't tag Artoria and Mordred as sisters, they're mother and daughter because Artoria literally "fathered" Mordred. They are biologically related.

blindVigil said:

We don't tag Artoria and Mordred as sisters, they're mother and daughter because Artoria literally "fathered" Mordred. They are biologically related.

Ah I thought I saw it was sisters. I don't know much about the Fate series, but I thought the servants were all summoned personifications/spirits of their historical figures. A bit hasty on my part to draw that connection.

OKM-ZERO said:

There was a previous thread from 8 years ago referring to Kantai Collection. Kantai Collection is obviously different from Azur Lane so I don’t believe that applies here, especially as I don’t believe Kantai Collection treats sister ships as sisters like Azur Lane does.

I'm not seeing anything in your post that's different from KanColle.

It varies but there are quite a lot of characters in KanColle who talk about the others in their class as their sisters, address each other as "onee-san" or similar or, as you put it "reference each other repeatedly and show they have a sisterly relationship".

Since the girls in the Azur Lane are personifications of the ships they represent, I would assume it would be safe to view their relationships to one another as sisterly and not being actual sisters since their only bond of being sisters would because of sharing the ship-class.

skylightcrystal said:

I'm not seeing anything in your post that's different from KanColle.

It varies but there are quite a lot of characters in KanColle who talk about the others in their class as their sisters, address each other as "onee-san" or similar or, as you put it "reference each other repeatedly and show they have a sisterly relationship".

In that case I would say that KanColle should get these tags as well then.

Kommandant said:

Since the girls in the Azur Lane are personifications of the ships they represent, I would assume it would be safe to view their relationships to one another as sisterly and not being actual sisters since their only bond of being sisters would because of sharing the ship-class.

The way they're personified also impacts how they're manifested, and that includes being sisters.

Sharing the same hull type is about the same as sharing DNA. It's a physical trait that determines certain characteristics that they share. The information is the wisdom cubes, and how they work is pretty similar to DNA as well. While it may not be exactly the same as humans, I don't think it's enough to say they aren't related.

OKM-ZERO said:

The way they're personified also impacts how they're manifested, and that includes being sisters.

Sharing the same hull type is about the same as sharing DNA. It's a physical trait that determines certain characteristics that they share. The information is the wisdom cubes, and how they work is pretty similar to DNA as well. While it may not be exactly the same as humans, I don't think it's enough to say they aren't related.

With that information in mind, they are related by class, not by blood. Since the ships take up the mantle of the ship they are representing, when they have sister ship, they view each other as sisters, not because of familial ties but because they are representing the same ship class.
So I think it's wrong to label romantic/sexual images of the "sister" ships as incest and siblings.

Kommandant said:

With that information in mind, they are related by class, not by blood. Since the ships take up the mantle of the ship they are representing, when they have sister ship, they view each other as sisters, not because of familial ties but because they are representing the same ship class.
So I think it's wrong to label romantic/sexual images of the "sister" ships as incest and siblings.

What gives them their class is their hull type and wisdom cube information which is about equal to blood/DNA. Human rules can't be applied exactly because they aren't exactly the same as humans, but there are stand ins/parallels. They share the same foundational elements which can be identified within them. Within their context that is a familial tie and they view it as such.
That along with their personification which is an element in their creation, manifests them as sisters.

Inseki could work if we're trying to be super strict, but again I don't think that makes sense within the context/universe.

If the characters canonically act like sisters in-game (important point, don't just tag incest because they're sisters in another copyright or something) and there's no indication of inseki I don't see a problem with tagging it incest, there's no need to overthink it. The point of the tag is fetishism, nobody's gonna do a DNA test on fictional anime characters.

This line of think could be applied to Kancolle, Girl's Frontline, half of Arknights and Fate, anything with military or religious theming, or anything else with cohesive units.

I know its more about the fetish than literal blood relations part of the time, but this seems like it's just shifting it to be virtually meaningless.

Veraducks said:

This line of think could be applied to Kancolle, Girl's Frontline, half of Arknights and Fate, anything with military or religious theming, or anything else with cohesive units.

I know its more about the fetish than literal blood relations part of the time, but this seems like it's just shifting it to be virtually meaningless.

If the characters act like they're blood-related in the copyright itself then what does it matter what copyright they're from?

nonamethanks said:

If the characters act like they're blood-related in the copyright itself then what does it matter what copyright they're from?

It doesn't, but that's kinda the point:
"Acting sisterly" is pretty broad and might as well be any yuri pic with a prior relationship. This argument makes Raiden x Yae Miko as incest an arguable position.

And it goes beyond yuri. There was a major youtube video on Chainsaw Man recently that called Denji and Power like brother and sister. And this argument gives leverage to tag pics of them as incest.

nonamethanks said:

If the characters act like they're blood-related in the copyright itself then what does it matter what copyright they're from?

Acting like isn't the same as being blood-related. In cases where they are not born, you cannot accurately determine if their sisterly bond is is because of legitimate familiarity or because they are so close to each other they might as well be sisters.
In Girls Frontline, dolls aren't born, they are manufactured. There are several dolls who do call themselves sisters like G36 and G36C and the Norinco sisters. However in Neural Cloud, Daiyan/Type 95 confirms that Jiangyu/Type 97 isn't her sister, rather that Jiangyu is from another production line and that they share a sisterly bond because Daiyan looked out for her.

I feel maybe the best resolution to this is:
If they aren't canonically in "traditional" family structure, the only indicator to tag something as incest would be if in the work they given an indication they are blood related, such as the various family honorifics.
you could have a situation, say, in post #6215695, the artist says these characters are a family, and if they followed up this work with makima being fucked by either of them, that would be incest, despite in "official" canon that not being the case.

Kommandant said:

Acting like isn't the same as being blood-related. In cases where they are not born, you cannot accurately determine if their sisterly bond is is because of legitimate familiarity or because they are so close to each other they might as well be sisters.
In Girls Frontline, dolls aren't born, they are manufactured. There are several dolls who do call themselves sisters like G36 and G36C and the Norinco sisters. However in Neural Cloud, Daiyan/Type 95 confirms that Jiangyu/Type 97 isn't her sister, rather that Jiangyu is from another production line and that they share a sisterly bond because Daiyan looked out for her.

Except that they are from the same line. Daiyan, Jiangyu. Both are CM-ENT. Also "A large part of why Daiyan is so good at taking care of people is due to her "little sister" Jiangyu. After the great success of her guzheng performances, the company decided to strike while the iron was hot and ordered a new Doll of the same model as Daiyan. Daiyan was delighted to hear this. She once told her manager that she was sure they would be boon companions."

Veraducks said:

It doesn't, but that's kinda the point:
"Acting sisterly" is pretty broad and might as well be any yuri pic with a prior relationship. This argument makes Raiden x Yae Miko as incest an arguable position.

And it goes beyond yuri. There was a major youtube video on Chainsaw Man recently that called Denji and Power like brother and sister. And this argument gives leverage to tag pics of them as incest.

We're talking about characters based on ships. You're never going to get that confirmation that they're blood related. But if kaga and akagi call each other sisters and act like sisters then what else do you need to prove they're sisters?

Kommandant said:

Acting like isn't the same as being blood-related. In cases where they are not born, you cannot accurately determine if their sisterly bond is is because of legitimate familiarity or because they are so close to each other they might as well be sisters.
In Girls Frontline, dolls aren't born, they are manufactured. There are several dolls who do call themselves sisters like G36 and G36C and the Norinco sisters. However in Neural Cloud, Daiyan/Type 95 confirms that Jiangyu/Type 97 isn't her sister, rather that Jiangyu is from another production line and that they share a sisterly bond because Daiyan looked out for her.

That's different, in that case you have specific in-canon proof that they aren't. That would be inseki. But for Azur Lane and other fetish-based gacha, if there's no proof that they're not sisters and they behave like they're blood related then there's no point in complicating the matter.

Of course, acting "sisterly" and actually explicitly saying they're sisters is different. I'm advocating for the latter, not the former, being eligible for incest when there's no proof of the contrary.

Veraducks said:

This line of think could be applied to Kancolle, Girl's Frontline, half of Arknights and Fate, anything with military or religious theming, or anything else with cohesive units.

I know its more about the fetish than literal blood relations part of the time, but this seems like it's just shifting it to be virtually meaningless.

In the case of Arknights they are literally blood siblings. While I'm not very familiar with KanColle (I can do the research if necessary), someone else pointed out that they do treat each other as sisters, and their designs do reflect that. So I guess they're in the same boat as Azur Lane. Seems that this applies pretty well to Girls Frontline as well.

I'm not sure how recognizing incest in another universe that makes sense within the context makes the tag meaningless. They act blood related, and they share elements that are very similar to being blood related and makes sense as a stand in. Applying the rules to a different universe/context means that they get defined a little differently.

Nobody has argued that just being close is incest in these universes and that it should apply to all relationships. Just ones that are treated as actual sisters (not just sisterly) and share the same foundation like hull type, weapon model/line, doll model, etc... which is what makes them related since they aren't literally born.

nonamethanks said:

But if kaga and akagi call each other sisters and act like sisters then what else do you need to prove they're sisters?
---
Of course, acting "sisterly" and actually explicitly saying they're sisters is different. I'm advocating for the latter, not the former, being eligible for incest when there's no proof of the contrary.

Except you are advocating for the former. I know you say "call each other", but the "act like" is what's being read. Even if you don't intend to, it's pretty clear that it's being read that way by the very person proposing this shift.

OKM-ZERO said:

In the case of Arknights they are literally blood siblings. While I'm not very familiar with KanColle (I can do the research if necessary), someone else pointed out that they do treat each other as sisters, and their designs do reflect that. So I guess they're in the same boat as Azur Lane. Seems that this applies pretty well to Girls Frontline as well.

You're actively demonstrating the issue and in your first post as well.

There are a few blood related siblings in Arknights, like Astesia and Astgenne. But you kinda made a blanket assessment there. Just like how you assumed things about Fate. And were proven wrong about GFL but then doubled down.

That's the problem. Your making the tag from something semi-concrete to basically entirely subjective and outright open to lore debates.

Veraducks said:

Except you are advocating for the former. I know you say "call each other", but the "act like" is what's being read. Even if you don't intend to, it's pretty clear that it's being read that way by the very person proposing this shift.

You're actively demonstrating the issue and in your first post as well.

There are a few blood related siblings in Arknights, like Astesia and Astgenne. But you kinda made a blanket assessment there. Just like how you assumed things about Fate. And were proven wrong about GFL but then doubled down.

That's the problem. Your making the tag from something semi-concrete to basically entirely subjective and outright open to lore debates.

You made a complaint specifically about it applying to "half" of Arknights, which shouldn't even be relevant to this conversation. I wasn't proven wrong about GFL, which wasn't even a part of my original argument.

I'm not making anything entirely subjective, I've given specific reasons as to how a rule should apply given the context of a different universe.