nonamethanks said:
Where did you even get that it's a bot? It's not. It's mostly a user voting on everything they see.
I don't think it matters for the argument, does it?
Posted under General
InfiniteZenith said:
At all hours of the day, within minutes or even seconds of a post being uploaded?
This is what we mean by people making assumptions without knowing what's going on.
Here's a graph of the top 10 voters sorted by number of downvotes in the last 7 days, names omitted of course. Notice how both the top two (yellow and purple) have clear periods of inactivity every day. The graph uses intervals of 8 hours, so the most downvotes cast by a single person in that graph was 119 in 8 hours on 2021-11-15.
It's not bots, it's just multiple users browsing and voting.
Edit 2021-11-24 - see forum #201059. Someone did go and mass downvote tens of thousands of old male focus posts two days before this post. However as evazion mentions, that's not the user this thread and the post I'm replying to is complaining about. There was no botting for recent posts.
Updated
evazion said:
Use the space below to tell me allowing everyone to vote is a terrible idea. I don't care. My stance is that making people pay $20 to vote on anime pictures is ridiculous and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise. If you want to talk about the logistics of how allowing everyone to vote is supposed to work, you're free to do that.
As long as there is some way to guard against/handle sock voting I guess sure. Maybe an option to prune votes on ban or something.
It already cleared up for one of them, but a while back, I uploaded two pieces of official art from Skies of Arcadia (post #4917168 and post #4917199) and they had a -1 score despite the fact that they're official art. (And the second one is pending, but close to deletion.)
nonamethanks said:
This is what we mean by people making assumptions without knowing what's going on.
Here's a graph of the top 10 voters sorted by number of downvotes in the last 7 days, names omitted of course. Notice how both the top two (yellow and purple) have clear periods of inactivity every day. The graph uses intervals of 8 hours, so the most downvotes cast by a single person in that graph was 119 in 8 hours on 2021-11-15.
It's not bots, it's just multiple users browsing and voting.
That's... pretty puzzling. Do we have data on the total number of downvotes? Or the proportion of downoted posts being downvoted a second time by someone else? What caused this surge if the downvotes come from different users?
From the CurrentUploads extension, I can see that around 6% of my uploads were downvoted until a month ago, but now, every and each new picture is downvoted (minutes after the upload from what I observed). Even if it comes from multiple users, I can't help but to find this strange.
Sproq981 said:
It already cleared up for one of them, but a while back, I uploaded two pieces of official art from Skies of Arcadia (post #4917168 and post #4917199) and they had a -1 score despite the fact that they're official art. (And the second one is pending, but close to deletion.)
Official art isn't special. If people don't like it they don't like it.
Sproq981 said:
It already cleared up for one of them, but a while back, I uploaded two pieces of official art from Skies of Arcadia (post #4917168 and post #4917199) and they had a -1 score despite the fact that they're official art. (And the second one is pending, but close to deletion.)
Both of those posts have two downvotes and one upvote. It's once again not one person.
Talulah said:
Official art isn't special. If people don't like it they don't like it.
I mean, I saw other official portrait pics for SoA uploaded on this website that are very much in the same spirit as this one way back when (like years ago), so I thought it was puzzling that no one uploaded Aika's portrait until now. It's kinda disheartening people don't like it, though.
nonamethanks said:
Both of those posts have two downvotes and one upvote. It's once again not one person.
I see. (And it's now that I realize post #4917168 still has that -1 score despite being approved.)
nonamethanks said:
This is what we mean by people making assumptions without knowing what's going on.
Here's a graph of the top 10 voters sorted by number of downvotes in the last 7 days, names omitted of course. Notice how both the top two (yellow and purple) have clear periods of inactivity every day. The graph uses intervals of 8 hours, so the most downvotes cast by a single person in that graph was 119 in 8 hours on 2021-11-15.
It's not bots, it's just multiple users browsing and voting.
Thast's..exactly what I've been saying, no?
when i was a new member, i never gave a shit about score and favs. the only thing that mattered was whether or not the image was approved so i could upload more of what i want.
one thing i am curious of, is how many people in this thread are using the misc tweaks addon?
that was the only way that i started noticing the downvotes, and with it turned off you would have to mouse over or open every post to see the voting. without it, theres really no way to quickly and very obviously (since the -1 posts are in red) to see the downvotes
thelieutenant said:
when i was a new member, i never gave a shit about score and favs. the only thing that mattered was whether or not the image was approved so i could upload more of what i want.
one thing i am curious of, is how many people in this thread are using the misc tweaks addon?
that was the only way that i started noticing the downvotes, and with it turned off you would have to mouse over or open every post to see the voting. without it, theres really no way to quickly and very obviously (since the -1 posts are in red) to see the downvotes
When I finish to upload a bunch of pictures, I always go through them to check if there was any typo or missing tags. If I edit something, the page is refreshed, and that's how I saw that something unusual was happening, not through addons. I didn't pay it too much mind until now, but seeing this is systematic is mildly annoying. Especially since we are now talking about allowing regular members to have the same behaviour.
nonamethanks said:
This is what we mean by people making assumptions without knowing what's going on.
Can't take a joke, can you? I don't particularly care about the data, and if it were such an issue, you could just make downvotes visible to everyone.
If the upvote and downvote mechanic is as inconsequential as suggested, wouldn't it be easier to outright remove it?
Updated
Guaro said:
Votes have nothing to do with approvals. Even high scoring art can be deleted if it's just bad in it's own way. Even low scoring art can be approved. Votes only show if someone likes an image or not by now, it has nothing to do with how the site works.
I think the little mini-conversation there is indicative of why votes don't matter (but actually do). Most people don't come to a site and go "oh, score doesn't matter". They come in the social media mentality - hell, it's human psychology - and see a post with -2 and assume there must be something wrong with it.
If a handful of dudes using downvotes as a personal blacklist can cause weeks of debate, three pages of anger, multiple forum threads, and god knows how many hours of Discord conversation, it should be indicative that there is something wrong. Even if the numbers NNT is giving us show otherwise. This "debate" is basically emotions and feelings vs. hard numbers. Something clearly needs to be done to assuage the feelings without fucking with the numbers.
I recall some people making off-handed comments about hiding score/favcount for the first few hours of an upload. I believe hiding score/favcount to some extent would be a good idea with the hard-set path of opening voting to everyone. It helps to slow bandwagoning and, as we often see in these conversations, after a period of time the votes balance out for anything that isn't niche or actually awful. When we go forward with opening voting for all (which I honestly can't argue against, I agree with Evazion that paying to vote on what a majority of users treat as a porn site is dumb), I say we set it up so that at the very least score is hidden for all pending posts if not all posts younger than some length of time.
If we're going to broadly open what is essentially a social media aspect, we need to treat it as a social media aspect rather than an atrophied meaningless section. Because it's clearly not meaningless to many users, especially Members.
NekoAria said:
So I think the favcount is more meaningful than the score.
Favcount is just as much of a popularity contest as score, if not more so. Just look at an order:favcount search; the top 1000 posts are almost entirely porn. It's a completely useless metric unless you're trying to determine which posts have been jerked off to the most.
