Posted under Tags
thelieutenant said:
BUR #5609 has been rejected.
create alias leaf_fan -> hauchiwa
Same thing
Should note that hauchiwa has both a wiki and nearly 4 times the post of leaf fan. Furthermore googling up the Japanese 羽団扇 stated in the wiki for hauchiwa results in images definitely matching it's listed translation of "feather fan" than a "leaf fan." Given that this is something attached to tengu in general, it might be best to stick to the Japanese and avoid mislabeling them by calling them a "leaf fan."
From the hauchiwa wiki:
...Tengu are commonly depicted holding magical ha-uchiwa (羽団扇 "feather fan"), fans made of feathers...
...While hauchiwa typically have a vaguely leaf-like appearance anyway, Aya's very definitely resembles a maple leaf...
Not all hauchiwa are leaf fans. Hauchiwa are generally feather fans, Aya's just looks like a leaf fan. Also considering that hauchiwa is better populated and has a wiki, the alias should go the other way.
Against. While rare, leaf_fan is also used for actual fans made out of leaves, such as seen in post #1721372. The character Princess Iron Fan from Journey to the West is also commonly depicted with a banana leaf fan (though all of her appearances here only have them tagged fan). Many Japanese works also feature an artifact derived from the fan wielded by Princess Iron Fan. Dragonball has it as the "Banana Fan", usually associated with Chi-Chi (because she's implied to be the daughter of the Dragonball equivalent of Princess Iron Fan, who is the wife to the Bull Demon King in the original story).
Some Tengu characters also carry actual leaf fans that are styled in the hauchiwa pattern. These are technically not hauchiwa (they are literal leaves and don't have feathers), in which case they should be tagged leaf_fan instead of hauchiwa, despite their similar appearance. Kurama from Urusei Yatsura carries one such fan. A tagged example can be found in in post #1709810.
As such, both tags should be gardened instead of just aliasing one to another. My personal opinion is that Hauchiwa should be left as it is, and a wiki for leaf_fan to be written to clarify its purpose. I am not sure whether we should limit it to only fans made out of actual leaves (in which case we remove all the hauchiwa examples that just have a leaf shape), or to also include any leaf-shaped fan even when they are made out of different materials. On this I am ambivalent.
Updated
Again, if there's some difference here then fix the wikis and clean up the tags, otherwise I'm aliasing it. Doing leaf_fan -shameimaru_aya and hauchiwa -shameimaru_aya reveals only a handful of posts, all but a few of which look identical to any other hauchiwa post.
Leaf-shaped is a common shape, but only because of how the feathers are overlaid, see post #991663. The feathers may also simply be "feather"-shaped segments, like post #1390562. post #1210472, post #468115, post #224792, and post #2502864 are examples where the feathers are clearly feathers or where they don't overlay the feathers to make it look leaf shaped, but all of them are hauchiwa posts.
There are also examples of Aya's fan where they have tried to give the shape a wispy edge to show that it is composed of feathers, like post #949906.
I got the wikis updated, but because I'm forced to do it on short notice it's going to sound high-handed since I have neither the time not mood to reword things subtly (I'd rather work on translations, personally speaking). Anyhow, somebody should probably go over them and rephrase things.
Edit: Anyhow, removing all examples of hauchiwa ("feathered fan" not made out of leaves) from leaf fan. is going to be a headache. Best way probably is to nuke it completely then repopulate it.
Updated
NNescio said:
I got the wikis updated, but because I'm forced to do it on short notice it's going to sound high-handed since I have neither the time not mood to reword things subtly (I'd rather work on translations, personally speaking). Anyhow, somebody should probably go over them and rephrase things.
Edit: Anyhow, removing all examples of hauchiwa ("feathered fan" not made out of leaves) from leaf fan. is going to be a headache. Best way probably is to nuke it completely then repopulate it.
If you argue for something but aren't willing to put in the work yourself, then you're putting the work on me. If you're putting the work on me, then get ready to wait two months while it goes straight to the bottom of my own todo list.
I've cleared out the leaf fan tag of posts leaving behind those that were made of leaves or appeared made of them, which did include some Aya posts like post #1735792 where her fan has the branching leaf veins.
evazion said:
If you argue for something but aren't willing to put in the work yourself, then you're putting the work on me. If you're putting the work on me, then get ready to wait two months while it goes straight to the bottom of my own todo list.
And keeping the status quo requires zero work from anyone, now doesn't it?
Look at it from my perspective. Someone suggests an alias, with barely any effort invested.
I disagree strongly against the alias, spending far more effort than the OP to defend the status quo and to provide alternative suggestions. I do so because I believe that both tags are distinct, and that aliasing them can cause issues in the future when people want to tag or search for actual leaf fans. Furthermore, there are already actual leaf fans (palm leaf fans, banana leaf fans, etc.) tagged under, well, leaf fan that would then be retagged uchiwa and be wholly inappropriate if the alias goes through.
I am now being issued an ultimatum to "fix" the wikis. I made a best effort to do so within short notice, but the rushed nature of the work is not going to be ideal.
Regardless, as far as I am concerned, I already put in a CRAP TON of work into this. Work that detracts from my preferred way of contributing to this site, that is translating. Plus, I cannot feasibly clean up the tags without the ability the mass-edit posts.
Edit:
NWF_Renim said:
I've cleared out the leaf fan tag of posts leaving behind those that were made of leaves or appeared made of them, which did include some Aya posts like post #1735792 where her fan has the branching leaf veins.
Thanks.
Edit2:
Populated leaf fan with additional posts. Updated leaf fan wiki with notable examples and usage notes.
Updated
The bulk update request #5609 (forum #186845) has been rejected by @evazion.
