LaC said: Dr. Slump and Dragonball are set in the same universe too: Goku and Arale have met. So I guess we need a tag for that too.
Don't you think this is just a little more wide-ranging and significant than that?
Posted under General
Look at post #81568. FSN and Turkeyhandle are connected by ONE guy in an "unknown" box. It doesn't look particularly significant to me.
LaC said:
Look at post #81568. FSN and Turkeyhandle are connected by ONE guy in an "unknown" box. It doesn't look particularly significant to me.
I really hope you're not seriously thinking that chart alone is enough to judge by. It's vaguely done and doesn't even have all the characters.
That, and the issue with Dragon Ball and Slump not only being far less populated tags and infrequent recipients of uploads, but also being TWO tags. Tsukihime and Fate by themselves have FIVE different tags EACH, related to spinoffs. This wouldn’t be of any relevance in the first place if it weren’t for the fact that these are pretty popular and very interconnected works that get a lot of posts for ten different copyright tags.
I'm with LaC on this one. Using a TYPE-MOON umbrella tag seems like a waste.
If you implicate the related spinoffs to their appropriate source, you're essentially asking for an umbrella term for two tags, tsukihime and fate_stay_night.
Log said:
Again, anything that can be misconstrued as a studio tag is not good.
Sorry, but I really just don't see why. Can you offer any real compelling argument against type-moon, as a studio, receiving a tag for the umbrella of original content they have made? You say it's undesirable or bad, but the rationale backing that up seems to mostly be, "I don't think it's worthwhile."
0xCCBA696 said it once and I said it multiple times:
a) It will open the gates for some moron to tag other things with studios and use this tag as a basis as to why they did it.
b) Can you state for a fact that everything type-moon puts out for the rest of their existence will be part of the nasuverse? (The answer is no because they're already doing 428 which is completely unrelated.)
Log said:
0xCCBA696 said it once and I said it multiple times: $words
Pardon, but that's really all you've got?
Regarding Point A: Why is that a bad thing? Usually if a studio is at the point that said moron has heard of it, it means they're large. Large enough for people to have heard about and care about as a discrete meme (in the sense of a cultural gene, not 4chan's partial corruption). This is the very essence of why we bother to to things in the first place: it's information that we care about. In all reality, you could just as easily argue that tagging one image with long_hair opens the door to some moron tagging everything from just below shoulder-length down to ankle-length hair that way. Oh wait, that's exactly what we've got. :)
Regarding Point B: And? What of it?
Even if you're like Albert (assuming his opinion hasn't changed in the intervening six months) and feel that, "If two copyrights don't share major characters, then as far as I'm concerned the implication is only of academic interest," I fail to see how this is a huge issue for you. I can't speak for the rest of the people in this thread that are positive about this idea, but if someone wanted to implicate all of ~utawarerumono ~comic_party ~to_heart and whatever else they've made, with key_(studio), well, I guess that person felt it was important; we have two choices: Yay or nay. Policy becomes clear over time; add it to the faq and help page on implication.
Bearing in mind that TYPE-MOON has a fairly distinctive style about them, to those that find this particular one palatable:
If this was
~utawarerumono ~comic_party ~to_heart ~to_heart_2 --> key_(studio)
or
~kanon ~air ~little_busters ~clannad ~planetarian --> leaf_(studio)
What would you care to chime in on what you feel about these cases?
We don't tag every single bit of background information that has no bearing on the pictures themselves. You're positing a scenario where someone thinks "ok, I want to look at all pictures which depict characters originally appearing in a videogame by this studio". That's about as likely as thinking "I want to look at monochrome pictures of characters that, in canon, have green eyes", and we don't tag that, as you should know.
DschingisKhan said: ~utawarerumono ~comic_party ~to_heart ~to_heart_2 --> key_(studio)
or
~kanon ~air ~little_busters ~clannad ~planetarian --> leaf_(studio)
Off topic, but you have your studios backwards.
I support the tag in this case (type_moon, or rather perhaps nasuverse) but that's because there's clear thematic similarities and frequent crossover of characters either in the originals or in the fandom, i.e. the images we're tagging. Key qualifies but to a lesser extent. Leaf, though, would not. I'd wager most studios wouldn't.
jxh2154 said:
Off topic, but you have your studios backwards.
The tag that has been used is key_(company), anyway, though not in much so far.. I'll fill it up with crossover pictures and jokes that go across multiple titles since that will at least be worthwhile to have in there.
Updated
Regardless of the outcome of this topic of discussion, there is a need for implications from some of these works to their parent IP.
Currently, only fate/hollow_ataraxia and fate/zero have an implication to fate/stay_night, therefore we also need
fate/tiger_colosseum -> fate/stay_night
fate/unlimited_codes -> fate/stay_night
Also, only melty_blood has an implication to tsukihime, so
kagetsu_tohya -> tsukihime
decoration_disorder_disconnection, kara_no_kyoukai, 428, and canaan don't unanimously demand an implication for various reasons. I do not know if mahou_tsukai_no_yoru should be treated separately, though since it predates kara_no_kyoukai it's probably incompatible with later works from a canon standpoint.
The nasuverse tag would cover all of the above except 428 / canaan afaik.
A giant wall of text is approaching fast...whoops. :/
Log said:
You just compared blanket studio tagging to hair lengths I can't believe that you're not trolling anymore. The two things are not related in any way. Hair lengths are visual and cannot be determined by searching other tags.
Sorry, no, I don't troll (unless you subscribe to the idea of "unintentional trolling," but that's a debate of root denotation/connotation). Heh, it would be rather inefficient for someone as long-winded as myself spend time doing that in any case. To (hopefully) clarify where I'm coming from...
You may not be able to "see" in an image that "Capcom made Street Fighter," but that at least is a verifiable, immutable fact. And the influence of Capcom can clearly be seen in things like Vampire, Rockman, and Final Fight, as well (disregarding the multitude of crossovers they've made). Conversely, you say that hair length can't be determined by searching for other tags, but as per my previous post, you can't really do that by searching for long_hair, either. What's the utility in knowing that hair is a little below shoulder length anyway? That's often going to be in the range of about 80% of someone's full height! I realise this is not the intent of that tag, but it does reflect the reality as far as I've seen: long_hair is (and a number of other tags, to be sure, are) based on subjective perceptions of the viewer (not necessarily a bad thing, mind, but true nonetheless).
So with that we then come to the concept that not all tags have the same scope or granularity. That is, for any given tag, it will have a certain number of posts it applies to. This is an indicator of scope. Granularity will be closer to an inverse proportional of the scope compared to the sum of all posts. High-granularity tags have narrower scope on average and vice-versa. Predictably, long_hair has very bad granularity because of its scope (it's currently the top tag here, supplanting breasts finally). Artists, characters and copyrights will have increasing scope and reduced granularity on average. Understanding the relation between the two and their value is an important aspect of effective semantic metadata usage.
So I brought that tag in particular up because I figured it would help highlight the inherently subjective nature of our tagged metadata in relation to what I was saying, and it was my hope that it would then prompt you to add to this constructively; to offer up something that isn't predominantly founded on, "I don't like it, so there." Obviously; unfortunately, that failed. Thank you, jxh2154, for responding with something meaningful, though (...and how in the world did I manage to reverse those? Blaah). Perhaps we could say there should be at least a few different copyrights with a decent number of posts before a studio could have a tag to unite them. Or maybe a requirement that most or all characters in a picture should be from that same studio or it doesn't count?
To clarify my "vision," as it were, I would see a studio as having upper-mid level scope. That is, it will fall between the individual copyright and the very widely scoped tags like long_hair, breasts, and touhou. (Don't get me wrong, I like Touhou as much as the next obsessed idiot, but as a tag it may as well be counted as a studio in and of itself.)
I support this implication as well. Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime, plus their spinoffs, all take place in the same universe (albeit, in some cases, disclaimed as alternate continuities - Nasu notably stated that "all endings for TH/FSN are canon"), with some notable character crossovers (e.g. Zelretch, the Aozaki sisters, some others).
There's enough interplay between these series, both official and in the fan communities, that I think an umbrella tag would be appropriate.
I would suggest the addition of a kinoko_world tag, with nasuverse aliased to it, thus covering both bases.