Posted under Tags
BUR #5144 has been approved by @evazion.
create implication credits_page -> credits
Credits are supposed to be the primary reason why a credits page exists. There are currently more posts tagged with "credits_page" than "credits" - a bit absurd when "credits" isn't restricted to the ending page of a doujin. (It could appear at the end of video files, for instance)
ion288 said:
I think there would need to be a clean up of the credits page tag. There are a few back covers and many afterwords and web pages among those posts.
Unfortunately this would require a translator to read alot of boring credit pages to find the ones that are miss tagged...
Woe be the lad or lass who takes up that task.
Well, someone's going to have to clean this up eventually. If they shouldn't be tagged credits, then they shouldn't be tagged credits page either.
The bulk update request #5144 (forum #183578) has been approved by @evazion.
Well, I did what I could to find pages missing credits and afterword tags. However, my knowledge of Japanese is very limited, so there were a number of pages I couldn't discern the contents of with any safety. They're linked below if any translator wants to address them.
From checking "credits_page":
post #1717271, post #1717274 - likely afterwords given the amount of text; 1717271 may not have credits
post #1909054, post #1910507 - afterword that might contain acknowledgements, unknown if it should remain labeled as credits
post #2116239 - hard to define without surrounding pages for context
post #2360003 - likely just an afterword, since a credits page directly follows it, but probably ought to be checked to be certain
post #2388925, post #2388926 - may just be afterwords, though mentions in them might give credit
post #2610607 - unknown if this afterword contains credits, since no associated credits page is visible
post #2718555 - probably just an afterword due to credits following on the next page
post #2723960, post #2723962 - lack of translation makes this one uncertain; might be an afterword only. A credits page follows these two pages.
post #2740733 - may be an afterword as well as a credits page
post #2747883 - likely just an afterword, given following credits page
post #2769104 - likely contains an afterword in addition to credits
post #2776541 - afterword that needs reading to check for internal credits; may not have them, as the work is fully available on Pixiv
post #2785784 - likely just an afterword, given following credits page
post #2786766 - afterword with a following credits page, but may contain credits itself
post #2788076 - afterword that needs checking for internal credits; a credits page exists for this work that wasn't uploaded to Danbooru
post #2788978 - may be an afterword with no credits; normal credit page appears two pages later
post #2790050 - may be an afterword/credits hybrid
post #2794177 - bottom section needs to be checked for an afterword
post #2805896 - afterword needs to be checked for credits; a credits page exists that wasn't uploaded to Danbooru
post #2811781 - comment in bottom right of page needs to be checked for an afterword
post #2887508 - strangely, the page calls itself an afterword, but may not contain the content OF an afterword
post #2910872 - probably just an afterword - has statements from both artists, and credits appear on the following page
post #2913222 - upper paragraph needs confirmation that it's an afterword
post #2914768 - probably a usage warning rather than an afterword
post #2918664 - afterword needs checking for internal credits
post #2941282 - the upper section needs reading to clarify if it's an afterword or is related to the work itself
post #2994745 - already translated, but begs the question if it does enough to qualify itself as credits; all it does is mention it's derivative of a Touhou game
post #3044555 - bottom section needs checking for an afterword
post #3101750 - may just be an afterword; a credits page appears at the end of the doujinshi
post #3134459 - hard to say what this is without translation
post #3170830 - bottom section needs checking for an afterword
post #3341024 - bottom section needs checking for an afterword
post #3732292 - the panel and the following text needs checking for an afterword
post #4366887 - probably just an afterword, but needs confirmation; credits are on the next page
post #4538859 - probably just a credits page
post #4551767 - are the statements in the upper-left an afterword from the artist?
====================
From checking "afterword -credits_page" (is an afterword that needs checking for internal credits unless otherwise stated):
post #1000688, post #1000689, post #1000691 - all one combined, massive afterword; credits exist prior in the doujinshi
post #1043321 - fully released on Pixiv; credits may not exist (if the artist is solely responsible for creating it all)
post #1223026 - only the front/back cover does anything resembling credits
post #1239414
post #1769473
post #2064922
post #2120977
post #2455471, post #3857639
post #2626894
post #2647784 - fully released on Pixiv
post #2694750
post #3162807 - fully released on Pixiv
post #3299436 - fully released on Pixiv
post #3885869
====================
From checking "credits -credits_page":
post #1918371 - can't discern if this is from a doujinshi or not (so I don't know if it should be a credits page or not)
That said, I ended up forming a number of questions from the process:
LetsDancing said:
That said, I ended up forming a number of questions from the process:
TL;DR: colophon probably should be aliased to credits page. Most pages that contain a colophon will likely also qualify for credits page, and those that technically don't (e.g. post #3500419) will likely still get tagged credits page because of the presence of the colophon itself (so we might as well assume a broader/looser definition of "credits page").
A colophon is a publisher's "imprint". Its function is to provide a brief statement on the publication of a work. This will generally appear at the end of a work as a 'stamp' or 'box' near the bottom of a page, containing the date of publishing, the name of the entity doing the printing or publishing, and possibly the "place" of publishing/printing if it's pertinent. A Japanese colophon (for most doujin works) also tends to contain additional credits such as the name of the author or the source material it's based on or "special thanks" and maybe a contact email. This will sometimes also have 奥付 ("colophon") written at the above explicitly declaring that is is a, well, colophon.
A colophon will by its nature contain credits attributing people who have contributed to the creation of a work (the publisher). There are some weird exceptions like for, say, a hand-written volume anonymously bound and anonymously donated to a library. In this case the "publishing" of the work is the act of making it available for "public" reading, and the "colophon" would be the library stamp indicating said date and the intent of the donor, and also likely the name of the library (which now effectively acts as the "publisher"). But those cases are extremely unlikely to pop up, and we can twist the meaning of credits to fit it anyway.
So colophon should at the very least imply credits, but currently it's not worth asking a BUR for it because currently it's an underpopulated tag with only four examples tagged.
That said, colophon has the potential to be a very problematic tag. Most posts that qualify for colophon (with 奥付 written on it or not) are currently being tagged credits page, because those usually contain either a nearly blank page that contains nothing but a colophon printed on it (e.g. post #4591925), or a page with a full credits list that includes or incorporates a colophon at the bottom of the list (e.g. post #152009). In both cases, the image is a credits page that also contains a colophon, so it technically qualifies for both tags. As such, colophon will just end up being a so-called "meaningless padding tag" that just winds up being used synonymously with credits page, except that most people are probably not aware of the term colophon, so colophon just winds up being an incomplete version of credits page that requires additional gardening work from time to time just to make sure it keeps up. So, likely not worth the effort of keeping it as a separate tag, so an alias would likely work better.
LetsDancing said:
- How strict should the definition of "credits" be? My personal approach was not to tag something with credits if it didn't give a lot of information and a proper credits page could be found elsewhere in the work. This kind of falls apart if the image isn't tied to a work, but I don't like the thought of putting mere cover pages with just the artist name (and maybe one or two additional pieces of info) in with fully dedicated credit listings. Posts like post #2994745 I struggle with: there's a clear credit given to the Touhou series, but nothing else; the most detailed list of attributions in this work comes from the cover page.
I would say credits has to contain a list of... credits, and not just mere mentioning of attribution. So, drawn by X, story by Y, further ideas and contribution from Z, original work by A... and so on. If it's just an artist signature, shouldn't be tagged credits. If it's a cover page with just "written by X" and "illustrated by Y" placed as bylines... probably shouldn't be tagged credits either (note that most examples under cover page are currently not tagged credits either despite containing attributed names). Though some cover pages may contain a more extensive list or an actual colophon so those will qualify.
post #2994745 is just a "dramatis personae" (i.e. character list) page. One might make an argument that it can qualify for credits because it has a paragraph explaining the source material (and another paragraph providing an abbreviated synopsis), but it is definitely not a credits page. It's a dramatis personae, providing a list of characters and their abbreviated bios.
LetsDancing said:
- In general, what's Danbooru's stance on uploading credits pages that don't feature art or extensions of the work? This feels like an awful thing to even ask given that artists obviously should be credited in full, but I've seen a fair share of deleted credits in works that had the majority of their posts approved; in some cases where the work was available elsewhere, I've noticed that the credits page seemingly wasn't uploaded to Danbooru at all.
I would say that in principle if the rest of the full work is already uploaded, then the credits page(s) should also be included for the sake of more proper and complete attribution. But they are sometimes not approved (even if the rest of the work are), and as such a lot of uploaders don't take the risk of uploading them.
This is just my personal opinion though. But I agree with nonamethanks that the deleted ones (for "active pools") should probably be appealed.
Edit:
Wrote up a wiki for colophon. We can retain this wiki even if colophon gets aliased to credits page (with one additional line mentioning why it is aliased, perhaps).
Edit 2:
So I plopped down 100 additional "good" examples into colophon to provide additional context. Those that either are explicitly labelled 奥付 or おくつけ, or are set aside in a distinctive "box like element", sometimes with leaf/floral-like or curtain-esque decorative print (like some traditional book colophons). And well... after going through multiple examples, I suppose now I sort of changed my mind and feel like it can stand on its own as a tag now, if we limit ourselves to the more "distinctive" examples that resemble traditional colophons. And credits page itself is also somewhat a mess recently, with back covers and afterwords thrown in.
The colophon tag does have some value too; the presence of a colophon suggests that a doujin has a print release, as opposed to a web-only release (that a lot of the newer post-COVID ones are released in). They are also some printing companies like Sun Group that also print fancy colophons for any printed doujin they handled. Also I guess they are some "final comic pages" that probably should just be tagged colophon and not credits page, because they only have one tiny(ish) colophon in a corner.
The problem is the name "colophon" is kinda obscure and is likely not going to get much use. On the other hand, it's not likely going to be 'mistagged' either. I suppose this is also true for a lot of those other "highly technical and obscure" tags that refer to a very specific thing or design element. We could maybe alias publication_imprint to this... but don't think that will find much use either.
But still, kinda useful. Many of the back covers and afterwords probably don't fit credits page well, but they still also tend to have a colophon somewhere that can be tagged.
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