Alias elf ears to pointy ears

BUR #3223 has been approved by @evazion.

remove alias elf_ears -> elf
remove alias elven_ears -> elf

IMO elf ears should rather be aliased to pointy ears.
Pointy ears are just one characterization of elves, but i guess it´s an opening for mistagging, as some people rather tag 'elf ears' if they mean pointy ears. So some images, where no elf is depicted, will be tagged as elf because of this alias.

If this is approved, I will, in the next step, propose the alias from elf_ears to pointy_ears.

On the other hand, I would also propose to remove the implication from elf to pointy ears, as I don´t think that the implication is good. Missing ears from injuries or hair over ears could mean, that an possible elf will be tagged with pointy ears, even if you can´t see them. Or we have to remove every elf from posts, where you can´t see the ears.

Only topic I found: topic #8356

EDIT: The bulk update request #3223 (forum #170964) has been approved by @evazion.

Guaro1238 said:

IMO elf ears should rather imply pointy ears.

Guaro1238 said:

If this is approved, I will, in the next step, propose the alias from elf_ears to pointy_ears.

So which is it?

Unbreakable said:

So which is it?

hiss It´s an alias. The title is correct now!

The bulk update request #3223 (forum #170964) has been approved by @evazion.

Removed elven ears -> elf too.

BUR #3225 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias elf_ears -> pointy_ears
create alias elven_ears -> pointy_ears

We don´t need the seperation of elf_ears and pointy_ears, as all elf_ears are pointy. There should only be pointy_ears for those cases, as we don´t create tags for other beings with pointy_ears, if they have one.

EDIT: The bulk update request #3225 (forum #170974) has been approved by @evazion.

wooh!

The elf tag also implicates pointy ears...is that necessarily a good idea? An elf may for instance not have their head visible in frame, thus tagging pointy ears would be errant.

chilled_sake said:

wooh!

The elf tag also implicates pointy ears...is that necessarily a good idea? An elf may for instance not have their head visible in frame, thus tagging pointy ears would be errant.

I´m in favor of removing that implication too. I guess the implication was created, because the elf tag would only apply on what you see and not what you know, like if the pointy_ears aren´t visible, it´s not worthy of tagging it as elf. But by now I think that you can see if someone is a elf, even without the ears. We just need to make a better wiki for when the tag is useable and when not.

Guaro1238 said:

I´m in favor of removing that implication too. I guess the implication was created, because the elf tag would only apply on what you see and not what you know, like if the pointy_ears aren´t visible, it´s not worthy of tagging it as elf. But by now I think that you can see if someone is a elf, even without the ears. We just need to make a better wiki for when the tag is useable and when not.

I'm curious, how can you tell an elf is an elf without the pointy ears?

Unbreakable said:

I'm curious, how can you tell an elf is an elf without the pointy ears?

Taking for example elves of World of Warcraft.
They have, IMO, a kinda unique style which makes it easy to decide if it´s an elf or not. post #2706814 looking at Sylvanas, you can see here glowing eyes, large eyebrows and the facial mark which is known from this series. And the skin color. If it were a closeup of her face, without seeing the pointy_ears; it would still qualify as a elf for me, as it´s the style given from that specific copyright. I don´t think we have any example for a case like that, but if it would exist, I would still tag it as elf. Or in a case, where a Warcraft Elf is seen with head out of frame.

I´m okay with giving hard rules for the elf tag itself, so that not everything with pointy ears etc. gets tagged as one. But I don´t think that the alias is correct, because known characters get tagged as one, even if the pointy ears aren´t visible. (for example: post #3540732, post #4042458, post #4041714)

Unbreakable said:

I'm curious, how can you tell an elf is an elf without the pointy ears?

If say, a character known as an elf is depicted without pointy ears or their ears are obscured or out of frame.

After searching a bit, a few examples:

Elf with ears obstructed by another's hands:
post #3455460 (NSFW)

Elven character with ears concealed by hair:
post #2436073

Elven character with rounded ears:
post #2362979

Cropped picture of an elf with a parent post with pointy ears:
post #2205996

chilled_sake said:

If say, a character known as an elf is depicted without pointy ears or their ears are obscured or out of frame.

After searching a bit, a few examples:

Elf with ears obstructed by another's hands:
post #3455460 (NSFW)

Elven character with ears concealed by hair:
post #2436073

Elven character with rounded ears:
post #2362979

Cropped picture of an elf with a parent post with pointy ears:
post #2205996

If the only reason a picture is tagged with elf is prior knowledge that the character is an elf, it shouldn't be tagged with elf. The same way it works with the android tag:

This tag should not be used if the character looks completely human, with no visible robotic traits. Tag what you see, not what you know.

It's not like every Android 18 is tagged with android, despite being on her name.

chilled_sake said:

wooh!

The elf tag also implicates pointy ears...is that necessarily a good idea? An elf may for instance not have their head visible in frame, thus tagging pointy ears would be errant.

Case in point.

Unbreakable said:

I'm curious, how can you tell an elf is an elf without the pointy ears?

You can't. Apart from the ears, there's no universal consensus for what elves are supposed to look like. Their skin and hair colors span the rainbow. They can be slender or muscular or voluptuous. They can have horns or male facial hair. Any definition of elf that goes beyond the ears is bound to exclude some characters that are canonically elves.

Pointy ears is one of the most basic definitions for elves.
If you can't see the facial features, then don't use the elf tag, even if tzhe character is canonically an elf.

What purpose, exactly, does the elf tag serve if it should only be applied to posts already tagged pointy ears?

Warcraft elves are among the only elves I know of with any visual features besides the ears that make them unmistakable for humans, and they're better tagged as their subspecies like blood_elf or night_elf.

At best it seems like the only objective elf-related tag (aside from copyright-specific stuff, like the Warcraft races) should be elf_ears, which could be used to distinguish elves from, say, vampires with pointy ears. I'm not sure even that would justify its independent existence, though.

BUR #3230 has been rejected.

remove implication elf -> pointy_ears

Regardless of the fate of the elf tag, at the very least this should go.

I'm guessing the "elf" tag serves the purpose of searching for pointy eared characters that are not vampires/demons/random fate grand order characters/whatever other many characters with pointy ears exist that are clearly not elves.

EDIT: This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

EDIT: This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

EDIT: The bulk update request #3230 (forum #171022) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

7HS said:

What purpose, exactly, does the elf tag serve if it should only be applied to posts already tagged pointy ears?

Warcraft elves are among the only elves I know of with any visual features besides the ears that make them unmistakable for humans, and they're better tagged as their subspecies like blood_elf or night_elf.

At best it seems like the only objective elf-related tag (aside from copyright-specific stuff, like the Warcraft races) should be elf_ears, which could be used to distinguish elves from, say, vampires with pointy ears. I'm not sure even that would justify its independent existence, though.

I think an elf was supposed to be a pointy_ears blonde_hair ~green_eyes ~blue_eyes character, like are most of the "notable characters" of the wiki page (except, of course, for the dark elves), possibly with a bow or in a forest.

Rignak said:

I think an elf was supposed to be a pointy_ears blonde_hair ~green_eyes ~blue_eyes character, like are most of the "notable characters" of the wiki page (except, of course, for the dark elves), possibly with a bow or in a forest.

There's also dark elfs, and elf grey_hair and many others. It can't be realistically defined through any other traits than the ears, which it shares with many other archetypes.

Unbreakable said:

I'm curious, how can you tell an elf is an elf without the pointy ears?

It's possible to tell that an elf's ears are elven without being able to see the pointy ends. So I'm going to come out and say that that alias was better the way it was before than how it is now - but the changes were approved too quickly for me to be able to make a comment. On the other hand this is grounds for supporting nonamethanks's proposal above.

(Explicit*) example: post #4016291

*I just used the first one I came across.

nonamethanks said:

There's also dark elfs, and elf grey_hair and many others. It can't be realistically defined through any other traits than the ears, which it shares with many other archetypes.

The only reason we are able to use the elf tag is because there is a definition about them and it says that they must at least have pointy ears.
This doesn't apply to all pointy-eared characters on this website.

In other words: Rather than nuking this implication, it's better to ask if the elf tag is necessary.