Posted under General
Hey everyone. I've been uploading to the Warship Girls/Zhan Jian Shao Nyu pool and I've been noticing there has been a lot of doujinshi pages by y.ssanoha that has been uploaded to the 'booru recently. Would this fall under
Manga: Uploading entire manga or doujinshi chapters is discouraged. Individual pages can be uploaded if they meet the quality criterion.
or not?
The short answer is that it's fine if it's acceptable since that rule is bent to hell and back. I would suggest it get a revision, but who knows when such a proposal will finally surface.
Mikaeri said:
The short answer is that it's fine if it's acceptable since that rule is bent to hell and back. I would suggest it get a revision, but who knows when such a proposal will finally surface.
I wonder if it would be acceptable in this case though, because the doujinshi pages have taken up five pages of the root Warship Girls tag, and whomever is uploading them is still not done uploading stuff done by that artist. I just worry that art done by other artists would get buried under the torrent of doujin pages from that artist.
Mikaeri said:
The short answer is that it's fine if it's acceptable since that rule is bent to hell and back. I would suggest it get a revision, but who knows when such a proposal will finally surface.
The proposal is there and discussed, but no change in sight. Although I think that this goes more against official mangas/doujinshi and not fan-made ones....?
It's discouraged since it's not our main focus, but if you believe the content you're uploading is of interest to the userbase (whether that be humor or cute stuff) then you are welcome to.
@NWSiaCB is much more well-versed in this though. I think he could answer your question better than I have, since he is an approver primarily focused on the sort of content we're discussing. Manga/doujinshi, after all, is what keeps him here, in addition to a good part of the userbase.
I think Eb fetched it pretty well in topic #13537.
I mean, we are talking about fanbooks and this stuff and not the official mangas from One-Punch Man for example.
So it boils down to quality as always or in other words: Those things are allowed if they are good quality.
But the ToS are still mentioning a hard ban against all which is it not in practice.
TVPrimmy said:
I wonder if it would be acceptable in this case though, because the doujinshi pages have taken up five pages of the root Warship Girls tag, and whomever is uploading them is still not done uploading stuff done by that artist. I just worry that art done by other artists would get buried under the torrent of doujin pages from that artist.
There are rules about posting too much of certain types of content (guro, furry, western art, doujin scans), but there don't seem to be rules against posting a lot of art by the same artist. I think the policy is "if you don't want to see it, then add the artist's tag to your blacklist"
When they say "Manga and doujinshi", what they mean are published, copyrighted works, especially those with big-name publishers that will sue Danbooru for hosting lots of copyrighted material. I.E. this isn't Mangafox, and you shouldn't be uploading whole chapters of Bleach or whathaveyou. This doesn't apply to things like people posting daily webcomics on Twitter or the like, which aren't as protected, and both almost by definition are freely available for public consumption, but also companies like Twitter basically put into their Terms of Service legalese that functionally says content creators forfeit part of their rights to their works when they upload to their services, anyway.
And yes, I've tried to have this line in the policy section clarified on this front for years, but all it's ever gotten was, "I don't feel like it warrants any effort to change the wording"...
This is why you see people upload a cover of a doujin and link to where it's hosted on another website, or else have just the pixiv sample of a comic uploaded. (That said, some Japan-dwelling users do personally buy and scan some of the stuff that only comes out at places like Comiket, but that seems to be a "no big name publisher" exception. In general, this also seems to be the stuff that isn't the porn doujins the other websites tend to cover. The reasons for this seem to have something to do with a combination of user tastes and who will translate things - those other sites are basically for porn doujins only, and a lot of the major translators here tend to prefer not to work on porn. Hence, we do the soft translations of non-porn, and they do hard translations of porn... It's a rather ill-defined state of affairs, but it's been working like that for years.)
Also, "quality" comes under different standards when it's webcomics, since artistically, a lot of 4komas are far worse in standards than a lot of stuff that are "pure art" images that would be deleted for lack of merit. "Quality" in comics basically judges whether someone would be entertained by it, and there's a bias towards approving pages of a series that's already partially uploaded. (There are some cases where artists have wildly differing art quality between pages. Ichimi, for example, will upload a few pages at a time where the first pages are 'the main story' and then it's followed by an 'omake' with much rougher art. Likewise, the odd text-only final or introductory page.
Updated
fossilnix said:
There are rules about posting too much of certain types of content (guro, furry, western art, doujin scans), but there don't seem to be rules against posting a lot of art by the same artist. I think the policy is "if you don't want to see it, then add the artist's tag to your blacklist"
I don't think those "rules" about posting too much of certain types of art are followed, enforceable in any meaningful way (it basically requires a janitor looking at how much of what kind of content a certain user is uploading at what rates, and then informing every other janitor not to approve more of them... and does that ever happen?), or even particularly well-known or recognized as rules by most users, and I've never seen someone successfully use "sure, it's really disturbing guro, but I posted a bunch of things that weren't guro today, too!" as a defense. That line is one of the "weasel words" admonishments added in when they relaxed standards to give themselves some ability to arbitrarily snap back any time they felt like it after making the rules really pliable.
In any event, if you don't want to see one artist's works, then just search "zhan_jian_shao_nyu -y.ssanoha" and you're done. If people had been doing their tagging more thoroughly, you could just use "-comic" and be done with it, but it doesn't seem that's the case. That said, trying it out, I hardly think that anything's being "buried" by y.ssanoha at the moment. They constitute a significant proportion of the Zhan Jian works, but non-comics are still a significant majority. (In fact, looking at it, I'm surprised there's so much of it. I thought people didn't like Zhan Jian as an off-brand Chinese knockoff version of KanColle, but there's more Zhan Jian art here than most animes get, even if it's bloated with a lot of official art and a lot of "let's dress up KC characters in their more ridiculous ZJSN version's outfits!")
I disagree. After trying out the blacklist, there has been a total of eighty-five (85) uploads from y.ssanoha, compared to thirty-three (33) uploads from other artists within the first six pages. This is a significant glut of incoming work from y.ssanoha, which you have been the approver of.
I just think that they should be held to a higher standard than other uploads because they're comics. Some are near sketch-quality. Doesn't that detract from Danbooru's mission of hosting high-quality Japanese & Eastern-style art?
TVPrimmy said:
I just think that they should be held to a higher standard than other uploads because they're comics. Some are near sketch-quality. Doesn't that detract from Danbooru's mission of hosting high-quality Japanese & Eastern-style art?
Most webcomics are lower in effort than doujins to begin with and comics in general have less detail put into it than dedicated art pieces. Because of that, we are much more lenient towards comics when it comes to approving them. We don't really read comics for the art in the first place.
TVPrimmy said:
I disagree. After trying out the blacklist, there has been a total of eighty-five (85) uploads from y.ssanoha, compared to thirty-three (33) uploads from other artists within the first six pages. This is a significant glut of incoming work from y.ssanoha, which you have been the approver of.
I just think that they should be held to a higher standard than other uploads because they're comics. Some are near sketch-quality. Doesn't that detract from Danbooru's mission of hosting high-quality Japanese & Eastern-style art?
To back up what Tapnek said, your idea of a higher standard on comics is kind of backwards. "Pure art" images are held to higher scrutiny on their artwork alone because that is literally the only basis upon which judgement can be made, while comics can have more leniency because the standard for whether a comedy is good or not is generally "did it make me chuckle?" In y.ssanoha's case, there are a lot of historical/informative posts that are probably more interesting for what they say than a lot of the textless "pure art" images that are thousands of different attempts primarily focused upon exploring the size and curvature of breasts. If there are so many images that "have the same thing to say", then we not only have the luxury of being far more choosy about what is worth keeping, but users actually need far more help searching through the overabundant chaff to find the wheat, and a more critical eye is necessary.
There's also little reason to point the finger at me, I may have approved a lot of the recent ones, but that's more a matter of being the approver who happened to see them first as evvvk was uploading them. Nearly all of y.ssanoha's works have been approved (with most of what wasn't either being porn or pixiv samples), and that goes back much further than when I was promoted to approver. (And a lot of his works that were deleted, incidentally, are about breast sizes, instead of history...)
Yes, there is a glut of them coming in now, as someone goes uploading the backlog of what y.ssanoha has made, but which hasn't been uploaded until now, but even by your own admission, it's a glut, it's a temporary phenomenon. Why should a permanent change be made for a temporary problem? At the root of it, the argument seems to be "I don't like this one artist, so we should make a wide-ranging change to policy that will have significant impact upon what others like."
Yes, Danbooru is an anime-centric website (at least, theoretically), and 4komas and mangas are a significant part of the anime fan culture Danbooru showcases. Even if it's not a majority of users, there are a lot of people who come to Danbooru on a daily basis specifically to see daily updated and soft-translated comics like Kouji_(campus_life)'s.
