I think it's a good idea. Gotta make sure they're qualified to get the job done, after all.
Posted under General
Seems topic #8554 is back on getting more traction again with only 3-4 mods reviewing each entry. Have we promoted anyone to approval privileges yet?
Mikaeri said:
Seems topic #8554 is back on getting more traction again with only 3-4 mods reviewing each entry. Have we promoted anyone to approval privileges yet?
Well, I'm doing my job (and I am really lenient) and buehbueh explainded why two of them weren't approved.
I really have a problem with this complain: With this complain, one simply doesn't realize that there might be glaring flaws in those images (or smaller ones). To me, this sounds like one doesn't trust the "judgement" of the three Janitors who did click "No interest" or in general the "Don't approve" options.
I think with this reason, a post should better be posted in topic #7934.
That said: I also don't get why nearly every approver doesn't use this option. It can't be that hard to click "No interest" to signal the user that this post was indeed treated. One can silently review an image by simply clicking nothing, but while someone is looking at the image and judges to approve or not approve, then one could also do a quick click. Clicking "No interest" costs simply no time then.
That said: We are not running low on Janitors, but it is no miracle that users are frustrated if only three to ten (depending on the upload) are using this option. The signal to Non-Contributor is not great this way.
Anyway, I don't know, but i'm asking @Type-kun how this option is doing that puts Janitors frequently back into the queue? Is this placed on hold because it didn't show the results desired or is there still work to do?
Updated
Provence said:
Well, I'm doing my job (and I am really lenient) and buehbueh explainded why two of them weren't approved.
I really have a problem with this complain: With this complain, one simply doesn't realize that there might be glaring flaws in those images (or smaller ones). To me, this sounds like one doesn't trust the "judgement" of the three Janitors who did click "No interest" or in general the "Don't approve" options.
I think with this reason, a post should better be posted in topic #7934.
That said: I also don't get why nearly every approver doesn't use this option. It can't be that hard to click "No interest" to signal the user that this post was indeed treated. One can silently review an image by simply clicking nothing, but while someone is looking at the image and judges to approve or not approve, then one could also do a quick click. Clicking "No interest" costs simply no time then.
That said: We are not running low on Janitors, but it is no miracle that users are frustrated if only three to ten (depending on the upload) are using this option. The signal to Non-Contributor is not great this way.Anyway, I don't know, but i'm asking @Type-kun how this option is doing that puts Janitors frequently back into the queue? Is this placed on hold because it didn't show the results desired or is there still work to do?
Mmm, I tried not wording it like a complaint -- just wondering why it's back to 3-4 usual like before. It's not that I don't trust the janitors we have, but it's that there's just too few to really give a broad examination of every image in the mod queue. Not every janitor's evaluation is perfect. Maybe you are right about them not using the "no interest" option, then in which case there might have been more that looked at each post, but as apparent to the uploaders w/o contributor status they still only see those 3-4 that mark that option down.
And I did see buehbueh's response in that thread. The problem isn't that, though -- of course there are (or should probably be) obvious flaws in every image that goes through the queue and gets deleted. It's just a matter of how good the image still is despite the flaws that mar it, which is why we (assumably, at least) don't flag and delete every post tagged with bad anatomy, error, etc. A variety of mods should help towards that cause.
Mikaeri said:
Mmm, I tried not wording it like a complaint -- just wondering why it's back to 3-4 usual like before. It's not that I don't trust the janitors we have, but it's that there's just too few to really give a broad examination of every image in the mod queue. Not every janitor's evaluation is perfect. Maybe you are right about them not using the "no interest" option, then in which case there might have been more that looked at each post, but as apparent to the uploaders w/o contributor status they still only see those 3-4 that mark that option down.
And I did see buehbueh's response in that thread. The problem isn't that, though -- of course there are (or should probably be) obvious flaws in every image that goes through the queue and gets deleted. It's just a matter of how good the image still is despite the flaws that mar it, which is why we (assumably, at least) don't flag and delete every post tagged with bad anatomy, error, etc. A variety of mods should help towards that cause.
It is not a complain against you. But what I understand when I read this: "Better blame the Janitors for being non-active and I don't see or want to see the flaws of said post(s)". At least that's what I got when I interpretet this sentence. Maybe it's wrong, I hope so at least...
At least, what i'm more interested in is why this "No interest" is so underused. Especially with the userscript done by evazion, Danbooru EX, it is really easy to go fast over posts in the mod queue. Otherwise, the queue is pretty...slow. Status:pending works better without the script.
That said, I again call @Type-kun here to ask something: There are certain modes, like "View", "Edit", "Approve" etc. Would it be possible a mode for the "No Interest" option in the queue? Because like that, one could easily use the mode "No interest" for posts that one doesn't approve and the "Approve" mode for posts that you'd approve.
If there is something that needs to be said, like breaking rules, poor quality or detailed rejection, one could still use the queue. The goal would be that this would be much faster than using the queue. I wonder what others might think of that, especially other Janitors/Moderators/Admins.
Provence said:
Anyway, I don't know, but i'm asking @Type-kun how this option is doing that puts Janitors frequently back into the queue? Is this placed on hold because it didn't show the results desired or is there still work to do?
There were no recent changes to that AFAIK, it still displays the notice once a day if you haven't moderated anything. Though it's just a friendly reminder now, and I saw someone in the CSS thread give out a code to hide it. If it's decided it doesn't work like that, then more strict measures can apply. Albert initially intended to forcibly redirect janitors to mod queue if they didn't moderate in a while. I tried to talk him out of it since I thought (and still think) that such redirect is disruptive if you are working on something, like uploading a story or going through forum topics. So we ended up with notice. Maybe there should be a smart combination of those approaches, like force a redirect if the user ignores the notice for too long. Also, for now the notice requires a single approval/disapproval or a visit to a mod queue, and relies on a cookie - like I said, more like a reminder than enforcement. It can be much stricter if necessary - moved to DB to prevent tampering, require 10 post reviews a day, etc.
That said, I again call @Type-kun here to ask something: There are certain modes, like "View", "Edit", "Approve" etc. Would it be possible a mode for the "No Interest" option in the queue? Because like that, one could easily use the mode "No interest" for posts that one doesn't approve and the "Approve" mode for posts that you'd approve.
If there is something that needs to be said, like breaking rules, poor quality or detailed rejection, one could still use the queue. The goal would be that this would be much faster than using the queue. I wonder what others might think of that, especially other Janitors/Moderators/Admins.
Hmm, it's possible but I'm reluctant about people spamming "no interest" without actually viewing the post. In the mod queue there's at least summarized info visible.
I agree with the first paragraph, although I'm more on albert's site here. If you have approval powers, then one should use it after some time and if the messages still gets ignored, then maybe there should be taken further actions.
I'm still disagreeing with the second paragraph, though. Especially with the user script from evazion this will be much easier, becauseit enlarges the thumbnail of images without losing quality. But that forces Janitors to actually use this script which should be an option.
There will be information lost, but only in favor of the image, like artifacts.
Besides, we have an "Approval" mode. That is the same argument for that: Why do we need an approval mode if we have the option for the mod queue which offers more options, like sources. Besides, one also will not look at the full image when you are in approving mode. One doesn't go then into view mode and approves the image manually then.
My point is: if the "No interest" mode is not good because of this reason, then the "Approval" mode is also not good, because in both modes, you don't actually look at the complete image.
If we remove the this "Approval" mode, then Janitors are forced to look at the image in full size and they have the options above. There will be no reason to not click "No interest" if they don't approve the image. Or they are forced to use the mod queue which offers the same options.
I do like the approval mode for things like comics. I read them in full size and use the a and d keys to browse through them quickly, then if they all pass muster, I just go to the artist's tag and use approval mode to approve them just by clicking on them. If people think it encourages laziness then I don't mind losing it though.
Hmm, I think that this might be worth talking about, because we have now a complete report about how the mod queue is being used by active and not-so-active Janitors.
http://isshiki.donmai.us/user-reports/approvers/%21CURRENT.html ("Active")
http://isshiki.donmai.us/user-reports/inactive_approvers/2017-02-12_v2.html ("Inactive")
That is the list with "active approvers" in terms of approving posts. When it comes to "Disapprov", there is quite a gap in this list, since some Janitors don't "disapprove" anything, so there is an amount of zero.
Wanted to ask if that is indeed a problem and maybe how this works with the mod queue. I guess that there is a reason why there aren't any "Disapprovals".
(I'd exclude Henduluin from the statistics for now, because they are pretty fresh).
Speaking for myself, I figure that since posts default to being rejected after three days if nobody approves them anyway, there's no real need to reject the ones that aren't obviously low quality or breaking the rules.
Truthfully, I find it somewhat challenging (still) to differentiate between personal taste and danbooru's standards. A lot of posts are not up to my personal standards, but aren't necessarily "bad" by danbooru's. I figure I should probably just leave those be; if they're truly bad they're either rejected by default or by someone else. If not, they will almost certainly end up being approved by somebody else anyway.
Not quite sure if this is the right way to go about things, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are other moderators/janitors that work this way, which would explain the relatively low disapprove numbers.